What's in a single mm tuner/machine head spacing?

[mr80htz]

Hello helpful people. I'm looking to change out the tuners on my Ibanez Talman 300 as one of them is malfunctioning. I found some Grover tuners that fit all the dimensions except for the two narrower screws as the current ones on the Talman are 18mm but the Grover's are 17mm. Is this enough to pass on the Gover tuners or is it workable? I've never changed out tuners before and am trying to avoid any headaches.

Thanks peeps.

 

[dwizum]

The default approach would be to fill the old holes and drill new holes. A single mm is really close - the problem you may face is that the drill bit will want to follow the old hole when you drill the new hole. The best way to solve for that is to drill out the old hole with a bigger drill bit, such that the enlarged hole completely covers where the new hole will go - then you can plug the big hole and drill a new hole completely into the plug, instead of running the risk of hitting the edge of the old hole half a mm away.

When doing that method, the best approach is to use wood plugs (cut across the grain of the wood) instead of dowels, so you're not drilling/screwing into the endgrain of the dowel. Plus, plugs look better than dowels, though no one will see the repair unless they remove the tuner. That said, tuner screws are not under a lot of stress so ultimate grip isn't a strict requirement. As long as you use a proper pilot hole size, a dowel would probably work fine if you can't get or make plugs.

 

[96tbird]

Meh. 1mm.

18 mm is center to center. A screw hole in the plate is wider than the screw, about 3mm, so the actual range between screws should be 21mm or 15mm, minus the shank diameter. The hole in the plate is at least 3mm

17 mm might be “20mm to 14mm depending on the hole diameter.

Your stock tuners were screwed down manually with no measurement. No two of your tuners will have exactly 17mm between screws and each tuner will have to be addressed individuallly.

When I had a same experience, my stock tuners were not perfectly aligned. You couldn’t tell from a foot away but when I laid a straight edge along them, they were all crooked a bit.

Because of the widths of the holes in the plates, 14 of the 16 screws on my new Hipshots went in without problem and alignment was as good as stock.

I don’t own one bass in ten that has perfect tuner alignment.

On the two screws that didn’t fit, I filed the holes,with a dremel, in the plate out a TINY bit, dabbed on some automobile primer to protect the metal and screwed them down. The screw heads cover the scars.

I don’t know why anyone would do wood surgery on a miss of a half mm or so when a tiny bit of filing on the tuner plate achieves the same goal.

Edit: IMPORTANT: tuner screws are fragile. Make sure the my don’t bind on the plate AT ALL.

If you choose to fill the wood and drill, make sure to use a bit that is only slightly smaller than the screw THREADS. THE SCREWS ONLY NEED A LIGHT BIGHT INTO THE WOOD. LUBRICATE THE SCREWS WITH PARAFFIN WAX. DISREGARDING THESE WARNING MAY LEAD TO BROKEN SCREWS AND THATS A NIGHTMARE.

 

[mr80htz]

The default approach would be to fill the old holes and drill new holes. A single mm is really close - the problem you may face is that the drill bit will want to follow the old hole when you drill the new hole. The best way to solve for that is to drill out the old hole with a bigger drill bit, such that the enlarged hole completely covers where the new hole will go - then you can plug the big hole and drill a new hole completely into the plug, instead of running the risk of hitting the edge of the old hole half a mm away.

When doing that method, the best approach is to use wood plugs (cut across the grain of the wood) instead of dowels, so you're not drilling/screwing into the endgrain of the dowel. Plus, plugs look better than dowels, though no one will see the repair unless they remove the tuner. That said, tuner screws are not under a lot of stress so ultimate grip isn't a strict requirement. As long as you use a proper pilot hole size, a dowel would probably work fine if you can't get or make plugs.

Thanks for the reply! That sounds like a great idea but I can't see myself doing that in this instrument...on my nicer basses, yeah I would. only one of the four holes needs attention. What about a) widening the hole like you mentioned but the filling it with wood filler. Let it dry and then insert the screw...or b) widen the hole and then do the old trick of dipping a toothpick in white glue, sticking in the hole, breaking it off, the insert the screw?

 

[mr80htz]

Meh. 1mm.

18 mm is center to center. A screw hole in the plate is wider than the screw, about 3mm, so the actual range between screws should be 21mm or 15mm, minus the shank diameter. The hole in the plate is at least 3mm

17 mm might be “20mm to 14mm depending on the hole diameter.

Your stock tuners were screwed down manually with no measurement. No two of your tuners will have exactly 17mm between screws and each tuner will have to be addressed individuallly.

When I had a same experience, my stock tuners were not perfectly aligned. You couldn’t tell from a foot away but when I laid a straight edge along them, they were all crooked a bit.

Because of the widths of the holes in the plates, 14 of the 16 screws on my new Hipshots went in without problem and alignment was as good as stock.

I don’t own one bass in ten that has perfect tuner alignment.

On the two screws that didn’t fit, I filed the holes,with a dremel, in the plate out a TINY bit, dabbed on some automobile primer to protect the metal and screwed them down. The screw heads cover the scars.

I don’t know why anyone would do wood surgery on a miss of a half mm or so when a tiny bit of filing on the tuner plate achieves the same goal.

Edit: IMPORTANT: tuner screws are fragile. Make sure the my don’t bind on the plate AT ALL.

If you choose to fill the wood and drill, make sure to use a bit that is only slightly smaller than the screw THREADS. THE SCREWS ONLY NEED A LIGHT BIGHT INTO THE WOOD. LUBRICATE THE SCREWS WITH PARAFFIN WAX. DISREGARDING THESE WARNING MAY LEAD TO BROKEN SCREWS AND THATS A NIGHTMARE.

Thanks a bunch. That helps me understand this slight annoyance

 

[dwizum]

Thanks for the reply! That sounds like a great idea but I can't see myself doing that in this instrument...on my nicer basses, yeah I would. only one of the four holes needs attention. What about a) widening the hole like you mentioned but the filling it with wood filler. Let it dry and then insert the screw...or b) widen the hole and then do the old trick of dipping a toothpick in white glue, sticking in the hole, breaking it off, the insert the screw?

Those ideas would all probably have a chance of working fine. It's your own bass, not one you place a lot of value on, and you're OK with the bandaid fix failing and needing to be redone - go for it. Like with lots of things in life, there may be one or more "best" answers but there are lots of other "probably OK" answers too, and it's really just up to you to decide.

 

[96tbird]

Thanks for the reply! That sounds like a great idea but I can't see myself doing that in this instrument...on my nicer basses, yeah I would. only one of the four holes needs attention. What about a) widening the hole like you mentioned but the filling it with wood filler. Let it dry and then insert the screw...or b) widen the hole and then do the old trick of dipping a toothpick in white glue, sticking in the hole, breaking it off, the insert the screw?

Wood filler isn’t made to be structural, unless it’s a specific epoxy product designed to be structural. Don’t use it for anything other than cosmetic repair. Fill holes where screws are with wood.