When guitarists think they know the correct notes for ya

bumperbass

bumperbass

Jun 19, 2012
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#1
So, got to jam with some old friends who are thinking there's a market for a wedding/corp band. Guitar player says we should get together to see if we can put a decent list together, so we did 2 weeks ago.
Someone suggested "Just The Way You Are", Billy Joel. I said that's cool; I played that one when it was a hit. Guitar player says he did, too.

Well, off we go. Halfway through the song, he says (paraphrasing here) "Right here you're supposed to go here and then here and then you play this here", I mean, he thinks I should play the same bass note for every one of his chords, and I'm not sure but I think he added 15 new chords to the original version. I told him that I don't remember the bass part being that busy, and that I remember playing it the way we just tried it and the same way I did back in the day.

So I listened to the song last week and sure enough, I had it close, but not perfect. We discussed it this week. I told him that I feel better playing it my way. He just said (shrugging shoulders) "No big deal".
I said, "Well, I think that if I play what you think I should play, then there will be less of a rhythm section".

I really don't know if he understood what I had just said. He's a superb guitar player in every way and one of the best I've ever played with since the middle 60's. Guess that reinforces my notion that guitar and bass only share the same shape and are played similarly. A bass player has a bass brain, and a guitar player a guitar brain.
 
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#3
Most bands I've been with let the instrumentalist figure out what parts to play. Yes, there's been small parts where we had to play the line a certain way, and that's cool. Now, if you're a cover band that wants to play the song exactly as recorded, that's fine, but most are not like that.
 
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#5
My current band and the last band I played in are original material with a back catalog. I learned all their current songs in the setlist from their CDs. When there was a note that I had in question, or indistinguishable from the recording, the guitarists have always been helpful in giving tips on what should be played, but never belittled me when doing so. For the most part, I've always been given free reign on what I want to play for the songs unless in was a critical melody line or isolated bass part. Thankfully I've had cool members in virtually every band I've played in. They always seemed happy just to have a bass player that is a team player and wants to do what's best for the song performance and for the band altogether.
 
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#6
bumperbass said:
I really don't know if he understood what I had just said. He's a superb guitar player in every way and one of the best I've ever played with since the middle 60's. Guess that reinforces my notion that guitar and bass only share the same shape and are played similarly. A bass player has a bass brain, and a guitar player a guitar brain.
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That could be our guitarist. He's really good at figuring out his parts for covers, but has no clue what I should be playing. If I'm unsure about something, I'll ask the keys guy. He's probably the best of us all for listening to what everyone is doing and fixing issues.
 
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#8
bumperbass said:
Well, off we go. Halfway through the song, he says (paraphrasing here) "Right here you're supposed to go here and then here and then you play this here", I mean, he thinks I should play the same bass note for every one of his chords, and I'm not sure but I think he added 15 new chords to the original version. I told him that I don't remember the bass part being that busy, and that I remember playing it the way we just tried it and the same way I did back in the day.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you know the original version and the guitar player knows an arrangement. Either way could be fine, but everyone needs to agree which version of the song will be used.

IMHO, it's always a good idea to scratch out a lead sheet, so everyone can learn the same chord progression and form. Lead sheets are also a helpful tool if the (future) band ever needs a sub to cover a gig.

All the corporate bands I have ever played in had a book with every song written out and the group leaders regularly rotated personal through every position in the band. A-listers get most of the calls, but the group leaders know they have to throw enough bones to the B- and C-listers to keep them interested. A-listers will probably know all the tunes from memory; B- and C-listers may read some of the charts on the bandstand. This type of band never rehearses. All the players are seasoned professionals so there is no need.

Not every corporate band uses this model, but many do.
 
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#9
bumperbass said:
...
I mean, he thinks I should play the same bass note for every one of his chords...
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From a pure arrangement perspective he has a very good point. If, in an arrangement, particular chord inversions are required, and his voicing has the correct note in the bass, then yes you should also play that note. Even if his voicings do not include the bass note as the lowest note, you should, as the bass player, respect the arrangement. If the arrangement has a chord, say Cm, in second inversion then you should be playing G in the bass as the lowest pitch even (or especially) if nobody else is. If you put a C in the bass as the lowest note then the chord is in root position and you are essentially blowing over the changes. Same goes for keyboard and anyone else.
YMMV, but maybe you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss...
 
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#10
SteveCS said:
From a pure arrangement perspective he has a very good point. If, in an arrangement, particular chord inversions are required, and his voicing has the correct note in the bass, then yes you should also play that note. Even if his voicings do not include the bass note as the lowest note, you should, as the bass player, respect the arrangement. If the arrangement has a chord, say Cm, in second inversion then you should be playing G in the bass as the lowest pitch even (or especially) if nobody else is. If you put a C in the bass as the lowest note then the chord is in root position and you are essentially blowing over the changes. Same goes for keyboard and anyone else.
YMMV, but maybe you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss...
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I think you miss the point that was made earlier. The bass in the original does indeed blow over the changes.
 
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#11
Downunderwonder said:
I think you miss the point that was made earlier. The bass in the original does indeed blow over the changes.
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Then, if that is the intent of that arrangement and the part played is faithful to that arrangement, it's not blowing over the changes...

Edit: just listened to the original recording and I don't think the bass blows over the changes in any way. It is a well-crafted line that weaves through and connects the changes in a very supportive and solid way. In that case I agree that if @bumperbass is faithful to that line, which is a prominent, important and, arguably in places a signature line, he should indeed stick to his guns.
 
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#18
bumperbass said:
So, got to jam with some old friends who are thinking there's a market for a wedding/corp band. Guitar player says we should get together to see if we can put a decent list together, so we did 2 weeks ago.
Someone suggested "Just The Way You Are", Billy Joel. I said that's cool; I played that one when it was a hit. Guitar player says he did, too.

Well, off we go. Halfway through the song, he says (paraphrasing here) "Right here you're supposed to go here and then here and then you play this here", I mean, he thinks I should play the same bass note for every one of his chords, and I'm not sure but I think he added 15 new chords to the original version. I told him that I don't remember the bass part being that busy, and that I remember playing it the way we just tried it and the same way I did back in the day.

So I listened to the song last week and sure enough, I had it close, but not perfect. We discussed it this week. I told him that I feel better playing it my way. He just said (shrugging shoulders) "No big deal".
I said, "Well, I think that if I play what you think I should play, then there will be less of a rhythm section".

I really don't know if he understood what I had just said. He's a superb guitar player in every way and one of the best I've ever played with since the middle 60's. Guess that reinforces my notion that guitar and bass only share the same shape and are played similarly. A bass player has a bass brain, and a guitar player a guitar brain.
Click to expand...
If a guitar player is explaining what bass line to play with "go here, then go here" I'd be suspicious. I shouldn't be that way, but sometimes I am.
 
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#19
I had a drummer who would say the same thing to me, usually when playing funk covers. I used to hand him my bass. I could of made it known to him that his drumming and vocals were way off in alot of songs if he was looking for an exact version. Instead i'd tell him to go listen to the record and tell me exactly what im not doing right. He joined a band after we called it a day... as a bassist! . Think they lasted 6 months. He who laughs last!
 
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