Why do I so rarely hear a MAJOR 3rd in a bassline?

Bioflava

Bioflava

Feb 14, 2016
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#1
Ok theory heads, here's a question for you: Why do so few rock baselines ever have a major 3rd in them?

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've been transcribing a bunch of classic and modern rock tunes (Rolling Stones, Grateful Dead, Radiohead) and I NEVER hear a major 3rd in these kind of songs!

And not only that, but when I'm comping under a guitar and piano, if I do try and work a major 3rd in, it almost always sounds like crap. OK, so I realize that I am answering my first question -- but, from a theory perspective, why is this so?

Thanks for any insight!
 
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#2
Creep, which is probably Radiohead’s biggest hit, has a pretty glaring major 3rd.
I don’t know who stone and dead are but I’ll say this, a lot of rock is in minor. From a theory standpoint the difference between Ionian major and aeolian natural minor is a minor 3rd, b6 and m7 I believe. The b6 and m7 usually don’t show up as much in rock as straight major and minor chords do, which are r 3 5 soooo, keep listening....you will find those major songs out there ...the usually start with a guns and roses feel with Dorian over major or minor or straight major over pop punk, or, in the case of creep a shift from
Major to minor in the same chord.
 
#3
Hey @Jrussblues thanks for your reply -- I amended the post to read Rolling Stones and Grateful Dead.

So, yeah, lots of major chords show up in R&R -- but the baselines that I've been transcribing rarely, if ever, include a maj-3rd under those major chords... That's what I'm trying to figure out! Why are major 3rds so rare in rock baselines?!
 
#6
Heya @kesslari --> Thanks for your note! I play several Dead songs (Althea, Shakedown, Morning Dew) and there isn't a major-3rd to be found... But, to pick up on your point, you are finding the exceptions to the rule!

I've worked on like 50 cover tunes in the last 2-3 years and I haven't come across a single major-3rd in a baseline... why not?
 
#7
Bioflava said:
Hey @Jrussblues thanks for your reply -- I amended the post to read Rolling Stones and Grateful Dead.

So, yeah, lots of major chords show up in R&R -- but the baselines that I've been transcribing rarely, if ever, include a maj-3rd under those major chords... That's what I'm trying to figure out! Why are major 3rds so rare in rock baselines?!
Click to expand...
Lots of 4ths and 5ths or do you have a specific example?
 
#8
Bioflava said:
Heya @kesslari --> Thanks for your note! I play several Dead songs (Althea, Shakedown, Morning Dew) and there isn't a major-3rd to be found... But, to pick up on your point, you are finding the exceptions to the rule!

I've worked on like 50 cover tunes in the last 2-3 years and I haven't come across a single major-3rd in a baseline... why not?
Click to expand...
Virtually every blues/boogie has one. The standard 1-3-5-6-b7-6-5-1 is, again, pretty ccommon.
 
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#9
ddnidd1 said:
No Major 3rd's - really ???
Click to expand...

Can you find me a rock baseline with a major-3rd?

Jrussblues said:
Lots of 4ths and 5ths or do you have a specific example?
Click to expand...

Yup, tons of 4ths and 5ths -- but those aren't maj-3rds! Here's our recent set list (just the covers):
  • Rain (Beatles)
  • Cocaine (JJ Cale)
  • I shall Be Released (Dylan)
  • Shakedown Street (Dead)
  • Althea (Dead)
  • Wolfman's Brother (Phish)
  • Loving Cup (Stones)
  • Harder they Come (Jimmy Clif)
  • Dear Mr. Fantasy (Traffic)
  • Stuck in the Middle (Steeler's Wheels)
  • Edit: Thanks to those who pointed out that Stuck in the middle uses major-3rds :)
Not a single major-3rd to be found AFAIK!
 
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#10
kesslari said:
Virtually every blues/boogie has one. The standard 1-3-5-6-b7-6-5-1 is, again, pretty ccommon.
Click to expand...

Ok, good point -- but again, that bassline is very rarely used in rock tunes.

Let me be clear: If we survey the entire corpus of Western ROCK (edit) music, sure, we can find a few basslines with maj-3rds... but those are the exception to the rule! So my question again is: Why do maj-3rds sounds like crap under even major chords in a rock context?!
 
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#12
Sweet child of mine - 2nd bass note is a major 3rd

Sweet emotion - has a major third

Shook me all night long - has a major third

Good times bad times - has a major third on the D chord

Long view (green day) has a major third in it

Interstate love song (Stone temple pilots) - tons of major thirds

All these songs are pretty rockin’...

If there’s a major chord, playing the major third is an option.
 
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#14
Bioflava said:
If we survey the entire corpus of Western music, sure, we can find a few basslines with maj-3rds... but those are the exception to the rule!
Click to expand...
I have to strongly disagree with you here. A very large part of "the entire corpus of Western music" is classical music. Western classical music from about 1500 to about 1900 literally abounds with major thirds in basslines.

Which is why I am intrigued by your original question: why would it be so different in Rock? I don't know. I'm following this thread with interest.

(I have a degree in Theory of Classical Music, so I think I fit your term "theoryhead".)
 
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#16
Bioflava said:
Can you find me a rock baseline with a major-3rd?



Yup, tons of 4ths and 5ths -- but those aren't maj-3rds! Here's our recent set list (just the covers):
  • Rain (Beatles)
  • Cocaine (JJ Cale)
  • I shall Be Released (Dylan)
  • Shakedown Street (Dead)
  • Althea (Dead)
  • Wolfman's Brother (Phish)
  • Loving Cup (Stones)
  • Harder they Come (Jimmy Clif)
  • Dear Mr. Fantasy (Traffic)
  • Stuck in the Middle (Steeler's Wheels)
Not a single major-3rd to be found AFAIK!
Click to expand...
Stuck in the middle is riddled with M3’s. If I remember correctly. Cocaine is a minor pentatonic song (at least the Eric Clapton’s one is) so it makes sense there aren’t any in there. I’ll see if I can listen to some of the other songs.
 
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#17
I hear them, and use them, all the time (even though I mostly riff in minor keys) - first a minor 3rd, then a major 3rd, or vice versa if major key, standard arpeggio on a chord...
 
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#18
instrumentalist said:
I have to strongly disagree with you here. A very large part of "the entire corpus of Western music" is classical music. Western classical music from about 1500 to about 1900 literally abounds with major thirds in basslines.

Which is why I am intrigued by your original question: why would it be so different in Rock? I don't know. I'm following this thread with interest.

(I have a degree in Theory of Classical Music, so I think I fit your term "theoryhead".)
Click to expand...

Hey @instrumentalist ok, good point! I was being a bit melodramatic... I should say "the entire corpus of rock music" ;)

Jrussblues said:
Stuck in the middle is riddled with M3’s. If I remember correctly. Cocaine is a minor pentatonic song (at least the Eric Clapton’s one is) so it makes sense there aren’t any in there. I’ll see if I can listen to some of the other songs.
Click to expand...

@Jrussblues Another good point! Stuck in the Middle actually has a major 3rd (F#) in the walk up to D and the figure played over A also has a major 3rd -- but again, that's just one tune out of many.

If we survey a big enough group of rock tunes, especially those with lots of major chords, my initial point may not hold up as well -- but my ears don't lie... whenever I try to sneak one in to major jams, it just sounds wrong. Maybe this is a question of emphasis? For instance, in Stuck in the Middle, the maj-3rds are passing tones.
 
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