Hey everyone! Please forgive me if this is a dumb question, I’m a bit new to all of this. Would using an ir possibly damage a cab/driver? For example, a rumble 410 cab and an Ampeg 810 ir. Thanks for any help or information!
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Would using an ir damage a cab?
- Thread starter SirBrianDawkins
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- cab impulse response ir
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Probably not, but when using IR's on cabinets that are already voiced, the model won't sound the same or even as intended to sound.
That makes sense. I would maybe want something like an FRFR cab right?
There are many ways you could damage a cabinet, but using an IR isn't one of them.
And yeah, as agedhorse said, using an IR through a cabinet defeats a bit of the purpose of an IR. That doesn't mean you can't... if it gets you a sound you like, there's no reason not to.
Yes, an FRFR cabinet would be the natural thing to pair with an IR or any other type of cabinet emulation, but I wouldn't say you need to go out and buy a whole new cabinet unless you actually need to because your cabinet won't get you the sound you like. I use a cabinet emulation pedal through a standard cabinet, because it sounds good enough that I haven't decided to get an FRFR cabinet just to do that.
Of course, this pedal is analog and tweakable, so I can adjust things on the fly if it doesn't quite sound right. To my knowledge, you can't adjust an IR's sound. So if the sound isn't to your liking, you might be SOL if you can't fix it somewhere else in your signal chain (EQ, etc). But that's the same regardless of if you use a standard cabinet or an FRFR.
I’m looking forward to trying it all out at practice tonight. But if there’s no risk of damage and it sounds good I’m gonna run it that way. If it sounds good that’s what matters lol
- Feb 12, 2006
- 52,447
- 176,650
- 14,248
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Yes, an FRFR cabinet suitable for bass guitar applications. Not a guitar cab.
Me trying to figure out what would happen if I run an 8x10 IR into an 8x10 cab...
Even FRFR cabs will often make a speaker IR difficult to discern. I have a bunch of IRs and they really work best using headphones or IEM. I usually turn off the speaker IRs when I'm going into any kind of loudspeaker.
I’m lost, maybe we should require a term be used in full before we switch to acronyms, maybe not. I have absolutely no idea what this thread is about. 
Frfr: Full range full response. Like a PA in a box.I’m lost, maybe we should require a term be used in full before we switch to acronyms, maybe not. I have absolutely no idea what this thread is about.
IR: impulse response, made by micing a cab and trying to duplicate it digitally.
Translation. Would using a speaker simulation (IR = impulse response, a type of filter) pose any risk to the actual speaker?I’m lost, maybe we should require a term be used in full before we switch to acronyms, maybe not. I have absolutely no idea what this thread is about.
Plus what JimmyM said.
A speaker IR is going to model the high pass of the speaker it’s modeling - that will, to some extent, reduce the low frequency demands on the speaker in your cabinet. It may not be the perfect high pass to protect your speaker, but it’s not likely to make the situation worse in terms of safety for your speaker - it’ll probably help some.
I did try this both with bass and guitar, and the result was at best bad.
The "double" voicing increases some frequencies or cancels some others. You end up with a weird tone. You can try by yourself, you can't damage the cab. You'll just hear if that's fine for you or not.
Nothing too crazy in the end. You end up with a weird muffled tone.Me trying to figure out what would happen if I run an 8x10 IR into an 8x10 cab...
It's important to note that the mic is an important part of an IR. Many people get confused thinking an IR is a digital recreation of a cab. It's not. It's the sound of a particular microphone in front of one speaker in a particular cab.
As such an 8x10 IR is not going to sound like an actual 8x10 when played through a speaker behind you on stage. It will sound like a microphone in front of a single speaker of that 8x10. Perfect for replicating the traditional process of recording or getting an amp and cab tone to FOH without using actual cabs and mics. But not for getting the sound and feel of the real thing behind you on stage.
I think of it as "amp in the other room" sound, rather than "amp in the room".
The theoretical solution would be to find the IR of the cab you're using, load it up in the editing SW and INVERT it. Then multiply (convolve it) with the IR you want. Load the combined IR_new * IR_cabinv into your IR pedal.
IR_a -> IR_binv -> IR_b=IR_a
(IR_a * IR_binv) -> IR_b=IR_a
So you want cab A. You apply cabA IR to your signal, then you pre-remove your actual cab B IR, then send ti to your cab B and in theory you get what it would sound like in cab A.
There are practical problems with this: if your cab produces very little above 4K then IR_binv is going to have massive top end boost, trying to put back that top end to make your cab "flat" (and similarly for low frequencies), but assuming the cab you WANT is basically the same KIND of cab (like you're not trying to turn a 2" driver into a sub) then IR_a and IR_b should be similar enough that it might work (IR_binv might be lots of top end boost, but if IR_a has massive top end cut then you're back to where you started, barring measurement errors). You'd want to look at the graphs and maybe edit out any extreme boosts in the final IR.
Ultimately most stuff is safe if you start at low volume and stop if it starts sounding bad!
IR_a -> IR_binv -> IR_b=IR_a
(IR_a * IR_binv) -> IR_b=IR_a
So you want cab A. You apply cabA IR to your signal, then you pre-remove your actual cab B IR, then send ti to your cab B and in theory you get what it would sound like in cab A.
There are practical problems with this: if your cab produces very little above 4K then IR_binv is going to have massive top end boost, trying to put back that top end to make your cab "flat" (and similarly for low frequencies), but assuming the cab you WANT is basically the same KIND of cab (like you're not trying to turn a 2" driver into a sub) then IR_a and IR_b should be similar enough that it might work (IR_binv might be lots of top end boost, but if IR_a has massive top end cut then you're back to where you started, barring measurement errors). You'd want to look at the graphs and maybe edit out any extreme boosts in the final IR.
Ultimately most stuff is safe if you start at low volume and stop if it starts sounding bad!
This is an important bit of info!
Many FRFR cabinets are made with guitar modelers in mind and marketed as "Full Range", where Full Range is not interpreted as the range of the human ear (like 20Hz to 20kHz) but rather the full range a guitar does.
One should use common sense here. You simply don't get a full range active cabinet that does gig volume for a bass guitar for three hundred bucks.
And then, of course there are those where the numbers were not created by measuring in a lab, but by wishful thinking in the marketing department.
Just as an example, the Headrush FRFR 108.
It has a custom 8" speaker and a horn.
It claims to have 2000W peak and 1000W continuous power.
It further claims to be +-3dB from 46Hz to 22kHz.
Max SPL is 129dB (not bad considering the Ampeg SVT810 cab has a max SPL of 130dB).
My personal guess is that you can measure that cab doing 46Hz at 126dB when you feed it 2000W for a very short period of time - during the explosion.
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