2x12 vs two 2x10 cabs 4 LOUD Rock Band

#21
GGman said:
What would be louder between a 2x12" cab vs two 2x10" cabs? I did read another thread here on this topic, but the OP said he was only playing softer, quiet rock at small size gigs. My 3 piece rock band will be playing on 11 :bassist: at small to larger gigs.

I am considering Markbass cab(s) with the Markbass Tube 800 watt amp. The 2x12" cab matches perfectly with the amp since both are 800 watts at 4 ohms. I am wondering if two 2x10", 8 ohms, 400 watt cabs that total to 800 watts and 4 ohms would be louder than the one 2x12" cab for our band. I know it would be easier to move one cab instead of two, but they are not that heavy to carry. I don't like the high cost of Markbass, but after a lot of research, I decided to spend more and get a rig with a large amount of watts and volume in the smallest, lightest package(s) that can also fit in my car trunk.
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Some 10s can get really load and some 12s can barks like 15s.
It is how the speakers and cabinets are made.
I know of 8inch speakers that can move a lot of air.
 
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#22
lomo said:
The precise answer is that it depends on which specific cabs.
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Absolutely.

Rick James said:
The displacement of the speakers limits how loud they go...
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Displacement can be the limiting factor, but it isn't necessarily. For example, take two different cabs that use the same high-displacement woofer, one of which is about the optimum size, while the other cab is much smaller than optimum. They will have the same displacement on paper, but the larger cab will go louder at low frequencies, because the box size also matters. So while the larger cab might be displacement-limited, the smaller one is probably thermally-limited.

Rick James said:
The problem is that only Barefaced tells you the displacement of their speakers, so you have no basis for comparison with other brands.
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Any manufacturer who identifies which off-the-shelf woofer he uses is also giving you that information, if you want to look it up. Greenboy would be one example. Note also that not everyone measures displacement (or efficiency, or low-end extension) with the same yardstick, so even having specs from multiple manufacturers doesn't necessarily mean that you can make accurate comparisons.
 
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#24
OP, as a guy who is in some LOUD rock bands, and usually using MarkBass heads, 4x10 or equivalent is the minimum especially if you're talking small & light type of cabs.

I'll concur that, provided the cabs are of the same variety - compact & of same/similar manufacturer/design - the two 2x10 should be louder than the single 2x12. Not a lot louder, but enough to make a significant difference in a band that's genuinely "LOUD".

Heck, a 4x10 equivalent may not even be enough. With that amp and two decent 2x10 it should be enough though, and you'll have a modular option for when you're not doing the LOUD thing.

What are your guitarists playing through? Do you normally have PA support for gigs?

Two 2x12 should be much better/louder, and a single 2x12 is a better stand-alone option if you ever go that route, but I know you've already covered that so I'm just adding to the chorus.
 
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#29
I am a fan of the modern premium 212s. To me, there is no better form factor. It is difficult to imagine that one of these wouldn't provide enough SPL, but if it is borderline for some gigs, provided the amp accepts the impedance, one can add a 3rd 12. The versatility of owning a 212 plus 112 is awesome in that one can take the single to coffee house and light practice, the 212 to majority of gigs, and both cabs for extreme gigs. Plus 3 12's do look awesome on stage even if only the single 212 works fine.
 
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#30
bebass said:
I am a fan of the modern premium 212s. To me, there is no better form factor. It is difficult to imagine that one of these wouldn't provide enough SPL, but if it is borderline for some gigs, provided the amp accepts the impedance, one can add a 3rd 12. The versatility of owning a 212 plus 112 is awesome in that one can take the single to coffee house and light practice, the 212 to majority of gigs, and both cabs for extreme gigs. Plus 3 12's do look awesome on stage even if only the single 212 works fine.
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Word!
 
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#31
bebass said:
I am a fan of the modern premium 212s. To me, there is no better form factor. It is difficult to imagine that one of these wouldn't provide enough SPL, but if it is borderline for some gigs, provided the amp accepts the impedance, one can add a 3rd 12. The versatility of owning a 212 plus 112 is awesome in that one can take the single to coffee house and light practice, the 212 to majority of gigs, and both cabs for extreme gigs. Plus 3 12's do look awesome on stage even if only the single 212 works fine.
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Sounds like the OP wants to really push his gear.
Having said that, is it a good idea for him to pair up a 2x with a 1x?
When he cranks, he is going to be asking the single to do as much work as the double. Sounds like danger to me.
 
#32
charlie monroe said:
Sounds like the OP wants to really push his gear.
Having said that, is it a good idea for him to pair up a 2x with a 1x?
When he cranks, he is going to be asking the single to do as much work as the double. Sounds like danger to me.
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Absolutely, unless the 2x12 is 4 Ohm and the 1x12 is 8 Ohm (and they're otherwise similar cabs). I think that's what bebass was getting at with "if the amp accepts the impedance..." You're right, though, that you wouldn't want to stack an 8 Ohm 2x12 with an 8 Ohm 1x12.
 
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#33
OP, re. impedance of the Markbass 2x12s, if you have a look at the Markbass site you'll see that the New York 122 is listed at 4 Ohms while the New York 122 NINJA is listed a 8 Ohms and comes with special Ninja badging that will scare off any would-be cabinet thieves. Someone pointed out the impedance difference to me once -- I can't take credit for picking up on it on my own. As far as I can see the cabs are otherwise identical.

Among the Markbass 2x10s, I think that you'll find the larger models with the horns to be superior in their presentation of the highs and in how they handle the low end to the smaller models with the piezo tweeters.
 
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#34
I know it is somewhat fashionable to bash Markbass cabs (and amps) here, but I personally like both. I usually gig a LMII into a composite Audiokinesis Thunderchild 115, plenty loud for my Country band; however at my last outdoor gig I suffered a rig failure (turned out to be a cord failure). Being anal, I also had my Markbass CMD210P +102HF on stage so the show went on, and several ex - band mates in attendance said the tone was equally good, no one said it was inferior after the switch.

Regarding you question, in your place I would go the 212 route, but that is because as much as I like my Markbass 410 rig, I like the tone of my Markbass cmd121h even better and plan on adding another cabinet or using it in smaller venues. So my advice is listen to both cabs before you decide. If a 212 won't fully cover the volume needs, can you also go through the FOH?
 
#35
charlie monroe said:
Sounds like the OP wants to really push his gear.
Having said that, is it a good idea for him to pair up a 2x with a 1x?
When he cranks, he is going to be asking the single to do as much work as the double. Sounds like danger to me.
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MarkA said:
Absolutely, unless the 2x12 is 4 Ohm and the 1x12 is 8 Ohm (and they're otherwise similar cabs). I think that's what bebass was getting at with "if the amp accepts the impedance..." You're right, though, that you wouldn't want to stack an 8 Ohm 2x12 with an 8 Ohm 1x12.
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Many of the current bass amps easily handle three 8 ohm 12's. Yes - this is a requirement but readily available in a 4 ohm 212 and an 8 ohm 112 by the same manufacturer. Form factor/looks are the same so easily stacked. But as I said earlier, the premium 212s on the market will put out a lot of SPL with some having high sensitivity, high power handling, and efficient cab design, and I don't really see the absolute need for the 3rd. It would be more for convenience/versatility as well as looks and possibly in some cases need. I can tell you that those musicians who see a 312 stack usually go "Man!" or some other positive expletive as it is a certain wow factor. Don't know if an audience would care, but the 3rd 12 up high makes it so easy to hear if a person has played r&r all their adult life and played for years before earplugs became popular and has hearing damage. The sound IS "bigger". 2.67 ohms - some amps have a switch in back. In this scenario, one should start with the 212 as a base because IMO in over 99% of the performances it will do the trick.
 
#37
GGman said:
I am wondering if two 2x10", 8 ohms, 400 watt cabs that total to 800 watts and 4 ohms would be louder than the one 2x12" cab for our band.
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Yes. Four 10" speakers will be somewhat louder than two 12" speakers–given the same watts thrown at them. That is to say, both rigs are 4 ohms, giving your amp a top potential to deliver 800w to each setup. But you're not giving 800w to each setup. You're giving 300. Or 500. Or wherever you have your Master volume knob set at.

So if you have each rig set at, say 5, they're both receiving the same amount of power and the 410 rig is giving you some more volume.

Here's the thing, though. Your 410 rig can probably handle more power than the 212. You have to factor that in as well. Let's say your 212 reaches capacity at 5 on the knob. Your 410 stack will surely do 6. Or higher.

So. More speakers = somewhat louder.

More speakers can handle more power which = even louder than that.
 
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