Advice on how to remove logo from headstock and apply a waterslide decal

[Stagelab]

Wow. A lot getting made of this when it's really not nearly as big a deal as some are making it out to be. You're putting a Sadowski MetroExpress decal on a Sadowski MetroExpress bass. Big F'ing deal. The fact that the ORIGINAL decal wasn't the same doesn't change anything, it's STILL a Sadowski MetroExpress bass and would have had the same Second Gen decal on it if it would have been possible to do so originally. I think the fear is that you'll try to sell it off as being a Second Gen MIC ME when it's a FIRST Gen (i.e. like putting a Fender decal on a Squier and then trying to pass it off as a real Fender). I'd rip you for that myself but that doesn't appear to be the intent so I'd personally tell the nay sayers to F-Off. It's yours, do whatever mods to it you like just don't try to sell it as something it's not. Which anyone who knows anything about these would pick that out immediately anyway so not really an issue.

I have both a First Gen AND a Second Gen and again anyone who knows anything about them can tell the difference immediately. I thought about doing the same thing (and may eventually anyway) but this is what I ended up doing with mine. Thought the headstock looked a little naked so I added the Sadowski decal to the existing decals and I think it looks good. Whether anyone else does or not is of no concern, I play both out regularly and haven't gotten a single comment on what the headstock looks like BUT plenty of comments on how good both basses sound. So whatever.
View attachment 7037347

Here's how I did mine. Basically left the existing headstock and decals as received, dampened the area I was applying the decal to with some water, applied the waterslide which allowed me to move it around until I liked it. Let it dry over night, next day started adding light coats of lacquer. The exact lacquer I used is RUST-OLEUM American Accents 2-X Ultra Cover Matte Clear. White label with bold blue, black cap. Like $5.49 a rattle can at Wal-Mart. Quick lightly spray coats that were allowed to dry for a couple hours between layers. Probably ended up putting at least 7 - 8 coats on it. Could have done a better job of trimming the decal but with enough layers of clear the edges really don't show. But yeah, spend some time trimming your decal, it'll look better. Up close anyway.

View attachment 7037353

First Gen and Second Gen together. I'd never done it before and I think it turned out pretty nice. Despite the nay sayers it was easy and absolutely no big deal to do. White trash engineering at it's finest! Flame away...

Thanks man, this is similar to the approach the decal maker recommended.

How’d you settle on that spray can? Not sure what that’s classified as — acrylic lacquer, enamel, etc — but I’m glad it worked out for you. I can get some at the big box store. Someone else recommended Dupli Color Perfect Match or these modeling products Micro Sol and Micro Set but I’ll go with what you got.

Before applying the decal did you sand that part of the headstock and spray some ultra cover?

I like how you added the decal. Looks great. Personally, I think your Sadowsky Metroexpress part looks even better than the logo Warwick puts on the newer models. My decal is like the newer models. Surprised I found it online.

Were you able to get the decal outlines to completely disappear with all those coats?

To your other point, yeah, it’s always a bummer when people claim you’re trying to commit fraud. If only those people would read the original post more carefully, if they even read it at all. If I ever sold the bass, I’d say it’s a 2021 Metroexpress with the updated logo used on the 2023+ models. Simple. And yeah, anyone who cares would know something about these basses and so they’d already probably know mine is older since it has an unlined, uncoated tigerstripe ebony board.

 

[Dave TB Killer]

It’s a good idea. I only have one decal though. I wonder if I could create a random test decal at a local print shop.

Not sure. The last decals I used were as a teenager on plastic models. And some of these could be a real pill. Thin and flimsy and tear easily is what I recall. And to do this on wood which absorbs the water would make me want to practice a few times before I committed to the actual scenario. That's just me though. I have had my share of attempting things which others made look so simple, and my first try turned into something very difficult.

 

[covermego]

Both of these videos are of someone removing a STENCILED logo, not a decal. If, in fact, your bass's logo is stenciled on, like in the videos, then acetone (nail polish remover) works best. However, I don't think your logo is a stencil. Hope it turns out excellent for you.

 

[Bassdirty]

If you play well, nobody will pay any attention to the decals on your headstock.

DANG IT!!

Anyone know where I can get a good deal on "headstock Decals"?



T$

 

[Bassdirty]

Wow. A lot getting made of this when it's really not nearly as big a deal as some are making it out to be. You're putting a Sadowski MetroExpress decal on a Sadowski MetroExpress bass. ....

Hey, this IS Talkbass.. AND the reason I came in once I saw "DECAL" title.

We all know how these threads turn out.


T$

 

[Geri O]

No idea what you mean. It’s a real Sadowsky Metroexpress.

I regret posting this thread. All I’ve gotten was nonsense back.

Nah, just ignore the non-helpful comments. Don’t even bother responding. Not worth your time.

I have my own thoughts about the idea, but being an adult, I know how to keep them to myself and stick to the question.

The helpful advice you’ve gotten is indeed helpful. But keep looking and make sure you have the right information. This is a project you get one shot at to get it right.

 

[EdO.]

How’d you settle on that spray can? Not sure what that’s classified as — acrylic lacquer, enamel, etc — but I’m glad it worked out for you. I can get some at the big box store. Someone else recommended Dupli Color Perfect Match or these modeling products Micro Sol and Micro Set but I’ll go with what you got.

Before applying the decal did you sand that part of the headstock and spray some ultra cover?

I like how you added the decal. Looks great. Personally, I think your Sadowsky Metroexpress part looks even better than the logo Warwick puts on the newer models. My decal is like the newer models. Surprised I found it online.

Were you able to get the decal outlines to completely disappear with all those coats?

How'd I settle on the clear I used? All I knew for sure was that I needed a clear matte finish. It was what was easily available to me (Wal Mart), listed as quick drying (which it is), non-yellowing, and UV resistant. Nothing on the label that I can find even defines what exactly it is, lacquer, enamel, ??? I figured if it messed with the decal I'd just sand it off and start over, or just sand off the entire headstock which had been my original plan anyway. The White Trash Engineering part... The place I ordered the decal from via Amazon (The Guitar Place I think is the name, they have a bunch of different brand name knockoff decals, located in Canada) they send two so I had a Plan B. So kind of luck of the draw I suppose. Still have the second decal held in backup if I ever decide to go all in on sanding the original logos off.

The existing headstock already has a finish on it. I did experiment briefly with a light sanding on the end of the headstock where the round RSD logo is located just to see what it was going to take to sand it down, became apparent that it was going to be more of a job than I was ready to take on at that point in time so I just left things alone and got on with applying the decal. So basically no, I didn't do any prep sanding just went with what was already there. I would say though that IF you sand down the headstock to bare wood I'd suggest putting a few layers of clear on first to seal it THEN position the logo, THEN coat over it. Much easier to move the wet decal around on a dampened sealed surface without wrinkling it up. Once the decal dried overnight it was just several light coats of clear each allowed to dry before applying the next coat. No sanding between coats and it came out looking factory applied. So beginners luck? I DID have some input from my finishing carpenter son-in-law on all of this though so I didn't go into it entirely blind.

Up really close you can kind of see the edges of the decal but honestly unless your eyes are within a couple feet of the headstock with it held just so so in bright light really looking hard, I can't tell that it wasn't factory installed and I know what I'm looking for. To a point more coats of clear kind of hide the edges but as stated earlier, the better you trim the decal the more natural it's gonna look. Applying a decal on an already finished surface then coating over it's never going to hide the decals edges completely, but unless you're close up in bright light looking specifically at the details, no one other than the most anal detail oriented person would ever notice. If you're going to be that critical sand it down to bare wood and go from there. Unnecessary IMO.

 

[Stagelab]

How'd I settle on the clear I used? All I knew for sure was that I needed a clear matte finish. It was what was easily available to me (Wal Mart), listed as quick drying (which it is), non-yellowing, and UV resistant. Nothing on the label that I can find even defines what exactly it is, lacquer, enamel, ??? I figured if it messed with the decal I'd just sand it off and start over, or just sand off the entire headstock which had been my original plan anyway. The White Trash Engineering part... The place I ordered the decal from via Amazon (The Guitar Place I think is the name, they have a bunch of different brand name knockoff decals, located in Canada) they send two so I had a Plan B. So kind of luck of the draw I suppose. Still have the second decal held in backup if I ever decide to go all in on sanding the original logos off.

The existing headstock already has a finish on it. I did experiment briefly with a light sanding on the end of the headstock where the round RSD logo is located just to see what it was going to take to sand it down, became apparent that it was going to be more of a job than I was ready to take on at that point in time so I just left things alone and got on with applying the decal. So basically no, I didn't do any prep sanding just went with what was already there. I would say though that IF you sand down the headstock to bare wood I'd suggest putting a few layers of clear on first to seal it THEN position the logo, THEN coat over it. Much easier to move the wet decal around on a dampened sealed surface without wrinkling it up. Once the decal dried overnight it was just several light coats of clear each allowed to dry before applying the next coat. No sanding between coats and it came out looking factory applied. So beginners luck? I DID have some input from my finishing carpenter son-in-law on all of this though so I didn't go into it entirely blind.

Up really close you can kind of see the edges of the decal but honestly unless your eyes are within a couple feet of the headstock with it held just so so in bright light really looking hard, I can't tell that it wasn't factory installed and I know what I'm looking for. To a point more coats of clear kind of hide the edges but as stated earlier, the better you trim the decal the more natural it's gonna look. Applying a decal on an already finished surface then coating over it's never going to hide the decals edges completely, but unless you're close up in bright light looking specifically at the details, no one other than the most anal detail oriented person would ever notice. If you're going to be that critical sand it down to bare wood and go from there. Unnecessary IMO.

Sounds good. Those TB instructions say to wet sand after each coat of varnish dries. Seems that step isn’t necessary. I’ll just follow what you did plus first sand the headstock face to bare wood and add varnish to it before doing the decal. Gonna try to get rid of the original logos using 400 grit, then 600. Will also plug the tuner holes with paper towel or something so varnish doesn’t get inside the holes.

Enjoy your Metroexpresses!

 

[Stagelab]

Hey, this IS Talkbass.. AND the reason I came in once I saw "DECAL" title.

We all know how these threads turn out.


T$

I had no idea my post would be so popular. For better or worse.

 

[mountainmike]

Sorry. I don't want to read this complete thread. BUT - since you have only ONE decal - if you spray (clear) laquer on top of a decal, the laquer can alter the decal. From the slightest bubbly effect to a complete FUBAR. The least you could do is test any laquer on any kind of decal before spraying the real thing. Good luck.

 

[74hc]

Why don't you sell that and buy a Japanese Metroexpress? Would be a lot easier than trying to replicate. You'd have to relocate the string tree.

 

[EdO.]

Sounds good. Those TB instructions say to wet sand after each coat of varnish dries. Seems that step isn’t necessary. I’ll just follow what you did plus first sand the headstock face to bare wood and add varnish to it before doing the decal. Gonna try to get rid of the original logos using 400 grit, then 600. Will also plug the tuner holes with paper towel or something so varnish doesn’t get inside the holes.

Enjoy your Metroexpresses!

My very limited experience with attempting to sand the headstock left me with the impression that it was going to take some coarser grit (100 maybe?) initially to get through the factory applied finish and down to bare wood but I'm not an experienced woodworker. Fortunately I have a son-in-law and brother-in-law who are though so worst case they'll tell me how dumb I am and bail me out... I'm sure the experienced luthiers and woodworker types reading all of this cringe at my suggestions and methodology but hey, it worked out just fine.

For whatever it's worth, the First Gen ME I did this to was a salvaged parted out loaded body and loaded neck I bought off eBay when the after-market resellers were auctioning off the disassembled first run Chinese ME's for parts. I actually bought the Second Gen first, saw the loaded bodies and necks being auctioned off on eBay and thought what the heck, for what they were going for I'll give it a shot. Took a bit of work and tweaking to make it playable but I don't have a bunch of $$$ in it so I wasn't too concerned about doing anything to it that might hurt the resale. Turned out to be a very nice instrument both tonally and playability wise and it won't be going anywhere.

We'll all be interested in seeing how yours comes out and what you have to go through to get it finished. Best of luck, hope anything I posted was helpful. That was the intent anyway. IME it doesn't have to be all that complicated and for me it certainly wasn't.

 

[byacey]

No idea what you mean. It’s a real Sadowsky Metroexpress.

I regret posting this thread. All I’ve gotten was nonsense back.

If you've never done color matching and finish repairs, you are opening a can of worms that will not end well. That is why people are trying to discourage you from the course you are on.
Wood darkens with time and exposure to light. To merely spot sand the old decal off is going to leave a light colored patch in that spot. Then you have to figure out how to blend it with the surrounding area. If you use a stain, they can lighten or darken over time, upon where it will stick out like a sore thumb again. I also don't think you will have acceptable results with a rattle can of clearcoat. Matching the sheen, selecting a compatible type that won't react with the original finish, and tint are all critical considerations. Without knowing what the original finish is, you are shooting in the dark.

This is why I suggested leaving it alone, rather than botching up an otherwise nice instrument.

If you know best, then carry on as you were.

 

[Stagelab]

If you've never done color matching and finish repairs, you are opening a can of worms that will not end well. That is why people are trying to discourage you from the course you are on.
Wood darkens with time and exposure to light. To merely spot sand the old decal off is going to leave a light colored patch in that spot. Then you have to figure out how to blend it with the surrounding area. If you use a stain, they can lighten or darken over time, upon where it will stick out like a sore thumb again. I also don't think you will have acceptable results with a rattle can of clearcoat. Matching the sheen, selecting a compatible type that won't react with the original finish, and tint are all critical considerations. Without knowing what the original finish is, you are shooting in the dark.

This is why I suggested leaving it alone, rather than botching up an otherwise nice instrument.

If you know best, then carry on as you were.

My plan is and has always been to sand the entire face of the headstock, not only the areas where the original decals are.

If over time the face is slightly lighter than the sides and back of the headstock, that’s ok with me.

 

[byacey]

My plan is and has always been to sand the entire face of the headstock, not only the areas where the original decals are.

If over time the face is slightly lighter than the sides and back of the headstock, that’s ok with me.

That's probably the best plan of attack.