[Amp Advice Wanted]

LeoNotTheFender

LeoNotTheFender

Oct 4, 2019
10
0
4,551
#1
Hi everyone, I'm new here!

Talkbass has always been my go-to website for advice regarding gear, but I had yet to post a thread myself.

Here it goes:

I need some amp counselling.
I play in a small three piece band, we play originals. It's a loud band. Our set and songs shift between post and prog. Sometimes jazz and math-rock. As a result, I see myself playing really solo-esque bass lines from time to time, aswell as lots of chords, whilst still maintaining and following the groove through most of the song's choruses. So the sound I tend to go for is in the ballpark of the round low end tones whilst maintaining the brightness of the chords - that way I can still cut through the sound wall.

I still play with my first and only bass: an Affinity series Jazz bass. I'm sure I need a new one but we think having a bass head comes first in the priority list, that way I can maintain my rehearsed sound and not fully rely on the sound tech guy.
Perhaps we're wrong thinking this way?

We managed to save some funds to invest in one of these amps:

Ashdown ABM 300 Evo II 2000's :
I have yet to understand the difference - besides Watts - in quality between the ABM 600/900 and the EVO III's (I just have this one as a reference)

the Trace Elliot AH600 - 7 Bass Head

an Ampeg BT25 solid state (120 W) from 1967 :
We found a seller and heard good things about the BT25.


We play small gigs... usually either outdoor events or in 100-200 max. capacity rooms. I don't own a cabinet. Most of the time I play through a DI and a PA system, sometimes the venue has a cab we can use.
That being said, due to my lack of expertise regarding gear, I don't know which one of these amps has more: limitations (how many watts are enough watts?), durability and is most suited for the conditions mentioned.

It's my first "Big" investment so, if anyone could spare some advice on anything related to this, it would be awesome!
Any other suggestion you guys may have is appreciated!

Thank you,
Leo
 
Last edited:
#3
Stumbo said:
If you buy an amp, what cab will you use?

Oh, and welcome to TB!
Click to expand...
Thank you!
Well, I wasn't planning on getting one, that's the thing.
Since I always play through a DI, PA or into a random cab that's provided by the venue or borrowed from an accompanying band. I was hoping the head would be versatile enough to work as the middle man in both cases. Perhaps I should consider buying a cab as well... Problem is we don't have the funds for both things at the moment, plus our car wouldn't be able to fit all our material + a cab.
 
#5
LeoNotTheFender said:
Thank you!
Well, I wasn't planning on getting one, that's the thing.
Since I always play through a DI, PA or into a random cab that's provided by the venue or borrowed from an accompanying band. I was hoping the head would be versatile enough to work as the middle man in both cases. Perhaps I should consider buying a cab as well... Problem is we don't have the funds for both things at the moment, plus our car wouldn't be able to fit all our material + a cab.
Click to expand...
What's your max budget?
 
#7
Pass on the BT-25. It's more of a curiosity these days, and was known to have an overheating problem back in the day.

If you are patient, you can find a good used 410 that will take a decent amount of power and a 300-500w solid state head in your budget. You will likely have to accept beaters and older gear, but as long as they work, that's OK. I suggest checking out the "janky rigs of doom" thread for some ideas.
 
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#8
JimmyM said:
Pass on the BT-25. It's more of a curiosity these days, and was known to have an overheating problem back in the day.

If you are patient, you can find a good used 410 that will take a decent amount of power and a 300-500w solid state head in your budget. You will likely have to accept beaters and older gear, but as long as they work, that's OK. I suggest checking out the "janky rigs of doom" thread for some ideas.
Click to expand...

Alright, thanks for the info!
The problem with the cab will still remain though... as I mentioned, the transportation of the cab will simply be impossible at the moment. We don't have enough space in the car for all the gear + a 4x10 cab.
Any suggestions for a 300-500 W solid state?
I'll be taking a look at the thread you referred either way, thank you.
 
#9
Hi Leo :)

LeoNotTheFender said:
Hi everyone, I'm new here!
Click to expand...

Welcome to TB! :hyper:

LeoNotTheFender said:
I still play with my first and only bass: an Affinity series Jazz bass. I'm sure I need a new one but we think having a bass head comes first in the priority list, that way I can maintain my rehearsed sound and not fully rely on the sound tech guy.
Perhaps we're wrong thinking this way?
Click to expand...

IMO you are not wrong.(Which doesn 't mean that you are 100% right :D)

Even the best bass won' t sound good played through a bad amp.

But a really good bass sounds better than a bad one when you use a D.I.

What do you use to amplify your bass and

how do you get your sound(s) when you are rehearsing?

Are you using pedals or just your bass?




greetings

Wise(b)ass
 
#11
Welcome!

IME, You can’t always count on venues and other bands for gear and sound. I’ve adopted a “be prepared” motto. Now, there’s a big “amp less” crowd here on TB. Plenty are at the level where they can faithfully rely on the PA. I guess I’m not at that level! :woot: But my point is really pay attention to what’s going on in your area, what other bass players are doing and what the kind of venues you want to play expect from you. Be professional, be prepared.

Now, if In the near future you can rely on the PA, a good preamp makes sense. Control your sound on stage and let them handle the power. Personally I’d still want to bring a small amp for a stage monitor; I can set it to “my sound” and let the sound guy handle FOH.

Good luck!
 
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#12
If you can always count on being able to go through the PA, you'll save money and have less to haul by not buying a amp at all, and instead tweaking your tone through a DI with EQ controls or a multieffects unit optimized for bass, like a Tech 21 Bass Fly Rig. With the money you save, you could sell your bass and buy one with whatever feature upgrades you feel you're missing with your current instrument. If you use IEMs, you can monitor yourself without the need for a floor wedge or on-stage bass amp and cab.

If you really need your own amplification on stage, you have a challenge if the band can't play quietly enough for you to get by with a rig scaled to your budget and available space in your transport. But, buying a head without a cab seems pointless. You have nothing to amplify.
 
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#17
Of what you listed the Trace Elliot AH600 is the only one that has the power to make it as a gig worthy amp. A fancy DI box like a Sans amp may be what you are looking for. If you can get away with not having an amp, why get one. Some day, when you got the cash you will get a big amp and speaker behind you. And then you will know the awesome feeling of having your pant legs blowing from the massive amount of air coming from you cab.
 
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#19
LeoNotTheFender said:
Hi everyone, I'm new here!

Talkbass has always been my go-to website for advice regarding gear, but I had yet to post a thread myself.

Here it goes:

I need some amp counselling.
I play in a small three piece band, we play originals. It's a loud band. Our set and songs shift between post and prog. Sometimes jazz and math-rock. As a result, I see myself playing really solo-esque bass lines from time to time, aswell as lots of chords, whilst still maintaining and following the groove through most of the song's choruses. So the sound I tend to go for is in the ballpark of the round low end tones whilst maintaining the brightness of the chords - that way I can still cut through the sound wall.

I still play with my first and only bass: an Affinity series Jazz bass. I'm sure I need a new one but we think having a bass head comes first in the priority list, that way I can maintain my rehearsed sound and not fully rely on the sound tech guy.
Perhaps we're wrong thinking this way?

We managed to save some funds to invest in one of these amps:

Ashdown ABM 300 Evo II 2000's :
I have yet to understand the difference - besides Watts - in quality between the ABM 600/900 and the EVO III's (I just have this one as a reference)

the Trace Elliot AH600 - 7 Bass Head

an Ampeg BT25 solid state (120 W) from 1967 :
We found a seller and heard good things about the BT25.


We play small gigs... usually either outdoor events or in 100-200 max. capacity rooms. I don't own a cabinet. Most of the time I play through a DI and a PA system, sometimes the venue has a cab we can use.
That being said, due to my lack of expertise regarding gear, I don't know which one of these amps has more: limitations (how many watts are enough watts?), durability and is most suited for the conditions mentioned.

It's my first "Big" investment so, if anyone could spare some advice on anything related to this, it would be awesome!
Any other suggestion you guys may have is appreciated!

Thank you,
Leo
Click to expand...
As far as watts go, always compare "RMS watts" between gear you are considering. That's the average watts that the amp can produce on a sustained basis. When comparing cabs with power handling, you also want to compare RMS-watts handling. That will level the playing field a bit. Some manufacturers will list their "peak-watts" under their power specs, which are twice what the RMS watts are. I have even seen "instantaneous peak power" used as a power rating, which is how much power it takes in a burst to burn out whatever you are using. So just look for RMS watts.

Next, I would look at 300-watts as a minimum, 500-watts as much better, and 800+ watts as something you will be able to use very long term with lots of different cab configurations. I would also look for amps that have a very clear signal or you will lose the definition in your chords. A lot of amps and cabs have built-in voicing that you will need to be aware of when trying to assemble a set-up.

For instance Eden XLT cabs have a built in low mid-hump, which sounds really good in the mix. Their XST cabs have a very flat frequency response without a built-in low-mid hump. My DNS-410 also has a very flat frequency response, so I dial in some low-mid boost in my amp at ~250Hz. That low-mid boost ~250Hz, gives you some nice definition and chest thump when playing in a group (no need to add it to an Eden XLT cab).

Eden and DNA both generate incredibly clear, full, and warm sound. I personally use Eden amps and cabs as well as DNA cabs...will get one of DNA's class D amps somewhere down the road. With the Eden amps I turn the auto-compressor off; the Enhance (shape control) all the way off; run the EQ's flat with about 2 to 3-clicks of boost at ~250Hz (low-mids).

If I'm running the Eden 112's (two of my EX112 cabs), I'll sometimes add one click of treble (knee of this shelving-type filter is at 2KHz in my amp). I'll run it flat when using just one of my 112's or my DNS-410 cabinet. Running two 112's together always adds some extra bass sound to it because of the sonic coupling and adding a tiny bit of boost at 2KHz is a nice touch to my ears (your mileage may vary).

My DNS-410 cab is absolutely without a doubt the clearest and most articulate cab of the bunch. It is super-clear and you can clearly hear all three notes of any bass chords you want to play. It's also a crazy loud cab (max. SPL=137db) and it takes very little power to get loud.

But, it's not a cheap cab. Current street price is ~$1,049. I'll be getting DNA's DNS-210 (street price is ~$899) shortly just because it's easier to haul around and is more than loud enough form most gigs. Will still use my 410 for outdoor gigs and festivals, but plan is to replace my two Eden EX112 cabs with this one DNS-210.

If price is a real consideration, then take a look at Eden's E-300 amp. It is a simpler amp (not so many bells and whistles) than their top of the line amps, but it has that characteristically clear Eden sound and will produce 300-watts rms, which is enough to get you going. It has only one speaker output on the back, so that can be limiting if your cabs don't have 2 input/output jacks on their backplates.

If you can find an older Eden WT series amp, they are noticeably warmer in sound and offer a LOT more control and flexibility as well as higher wattage than the E-300. A WT550 or WT800 would be superb if you can get a good price on them. If you're ordering new and can afford it, I'd recommend the DNA-800 which sells for ~$799 and weighs just 4.8-lbs. It has a less complex but a very musical EQ section (bass, low-mids, high-mids, treble) as well as an adjustable compressor built in with threshold and ratio controls. The video below is cued up to the part where Bass Musician Magazine starts reviewing the sounds and features of the DNA-800:



For cabs that are not as expensive as the DNS cabs by DNA, I'd suggest the Eden E-series cabs. I'd be looking at either the EX-210 or two of the EX-112's. If you decide on the EX112's get them in 8 ohm. I got mine in 4 ohm because I was only buying it for one venue we play all the time and a single 112 would handle that fine. Once I got it, I liked it so much I bought another. That meant I had to bring my big amp to play both because it is a dual power-block amp and will put out 400-watts @ 4 ohms in each of its two channels.

Playing both of those in one amp will put a 2 ohm load on the amp which a lot of amps can't handle. If they were 8 ohm, two of them would put a 4 ohm load on the amp, which most amps can handle no problem. I'd recommend getting them in 8 ohm. So I have to take my big dual power block amp with me to drive both of them - one goes into each channel. I've done that for quite a few gigs now because they sound really good, they're easier to move around than my 410, and they were pretty inexpensive ($269 each)..
 
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