Aquilastrings Flatwound ABG String set (Copper flats on Bioplastic 'Sugar' core)

[Mimmo]

HI @Mimmo Curious, what is that ABG in your vid? (Looks like a Dean, but not like a Dean)

It is written 'Gear 4 music' inside: it is a chinese cheap instrument I bought on Amazon in order to do my experiments. Unfortunately it was fretless.

 

[Jay Corwin]

Aquila has been cooking up some really great synthetic stuff on the double bass side. Hopefully this translates well to the BG.

I'd like to see these for a short scale maybe. When I'm not playing upright, my couch bass is one of those Ibanez Parlor basses. I hate the rounds, though I've just been to preoccupied to find a suitable replacement.

 

[HaphAsSard]

When I'm not playing upright, my couch bass is one of those Ibanez Parlor basses.

If 25.5" from ball-end to silk are enough to cover the bridge-pin to nut distance on your Ibanez, here's a ready-made option - chrome-nickel flatwound on nylon core, made by Pyramid:
https://www.thomannmusic.com/pyramid_235_acoustic_bass_gs_miniset.htm

As for Aquila, they're putting out a ukulele bass version, but whether there'll be a slightly longer version, suitable for solid-body uke basses or guitar-scale acoustic bass guitars, I don't know:
Kala UBass Megathread, Part 7 (&ff.)

 

[Crawforde]

I hadn’t seen those nylon core Pyramid strings before.
Pyramid are pretty reasonable about custom orders so they may be willing to make those in other lengths too.

 

[Mimmo]

If 25.5" from ball-end to silk are enough to cover the bridge-pin to nut distance on your Ibanez, here's a ready-made option - chrome-nickel flatwound on nylon core, made by Pyramid:
https://www.thomannmusic.com/pyramid_235_acoustic_bass_gs_miniset.htm

As for Aquila, they're putting out a ukulele bass version, but whether there'll be a slightly longer version, suitable for solid-body uke basses or guitar-scale acoustic bass guitars, I don't know:
Kala UBass Megathread, Part 7 (&ff.)

we are doing flat wound for bass ukulele kala models or similar: for medium scale basses such as goldtone microbass and our shortbass one and then for acoustic bass guitars like those of this post. All the necessity are covered
mimmo

 

[Karl Kaminski]

I'm really excited as Mimmo from Aquilastrings has sent me a demo set of Copper Flats to try! I believe these are a pre-production set, so some things about the strings may (or may not) change once in production. I'll just share what I see/feel/hear with this demo set over the next few days/weeks...

Unpacking:



Feel: Uncoiling the strings have a wire-like feel, yet soft—not like the springiness of EB string sets when uncoiling. They remind me of doublebass strings coming out of the package—like the way Hybrid strings feel (ie TI Dominants/EPs/etc).

Finish: The flat copper wraps are smooth and the “Bead” ball ends are a nice touch. The wrap finish is smoother than Fisoma F2716, TI AcoustiCores, GHS Pressurewound Bronze, but not as ‘slick’ as TI Jazz Flats or LaBella Tapes. This will be my first time playing copper strings, I like the tactile feel out of the package.



At first inspection, the set seemed a little ‘short’ or the wraps were too long. But Mimmo put my mind at ease and informed me that these strings will stretch (up to 3-4cm). See installation notes below…


Installation:

Aquilastrings’ installation notes:
1. Tune strings without riding in the nut slot. Once close to pitch, place string in nut slot for final tuning to pitch.

(I think this makes sense as the strings seem stretchy, keeping them out of the nut slot might prevent any possible snagging. —These are not your average steel/alloy type strings )

2. After the installation, stretch them with your hand till they are stabilized. The best sound will come after a couple of hours; better next day.


Im installing them now, so I'll post something once they are settled-in.

 

[KohanMike]

At first inspection, the set seemed a little ‘short’ or the wraps were too long. But Mimmo put my mind at ease and informed me that these strings will stretch (up to 3-4cm).

I found that the Kala/Galli flats also have a lot of silk, so I've actually stripped off most of the silk that wraps on the flat area so it doesn't cross over the nut.

 

[Mimmo]

I'm really excited as Mimmo from Aquilastrings has sent me…..’


‘ After the installation do not stretch them by your fingers till they are stabilized. ‘


Im installing them now, so I'll post something once they are settled-in.

ciao Karl,
thank you very much to share these infos. There is just one thing that need to
be modified (probably my english was not the best …): after the installation the strings must be stretched by hands till they are stable. The performance will improve over the time and from the next day they will be at the best.
yes they stretch more or less 4 cms do the silk should me out of the slot (these are the first samples: i need to adjust the silk length)
thanks
mimmo

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Thank you Mimmo, that was my mistake, I misunderstood. (I 'edited' the prior post in blue to correct that )


I just installed the set and I can confirm they do stretch/expand in length while coming up to pitch. I held my fingers under the strings at the nut till they were about a 3rd away from finally pitch.


Since this type of string was new to me, I took some pics (relaxed/ 4th below/ 2nd below/ at pitch) to illustrate 'the stretch':


The D string was little long in the silks, but I'm going to leave it till they settle and see if it stretches like the rest.


One issue I encountered during installation was the A, D, G saddle pins holes were too small (7mm) on the Furch to fit the 8.25mm bead ballends. Not the end of the world I strung them thru the soundhole. I'd love to see a 6-7mm bead for more universal applications like Saddle-thru, Saddle-pin, and EB piezo bridges.



Initial thoughts on sound/feel while installing:
While it's too early to tell, they remind me of tone of LaBella Gold-Whites and the feel of TI AcoustiCore. Theres a darker/warmer tone to the string on my bass. 'Earthy' is the term that keeps coming to mind when I play and feel them. They don't have the light ring of the silver Fisoma and GHS PressurePB, and definately not the high-end zing of standard ABG bronze like D'addario.

...And the wraps are smooth (which I love).

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Impressions playing in:

My 'initial thoughts' have held true so far...

Tone:
The tone is unique— 'drier' than most I've played—yet strong and clear. They have a solid fundamental, a muted high-end without alot overtones, as well as a nice sustain. The upper register is 'punchy' without sounding 'choked' or short and the sustain makes them a very easy string to play. The strings also sound really good with the pickup—full with a nice smooth transient.

Feel:
String tension is 'more relaxed', maybe on-par with TI AcoustiCore. I had to lessen my attack to compensate for my low action and the amount of travel these strings have. I'm considering a higher action and more relief in the neck to allow these strings to really breathe and open up.

The set I'm testing is similar/± to a "Light gauge" set, but they sound more like a Medium set.

G .059" 1.50mm
D .068" 1.66mm
A .083" 2.10mm
E .102" 2.60mm
B .118" 3.00mm
​

I like the balance of the set "string-to-string", but I'd really like to try a stiffer or heavier gauge set if it becomes available. Maybe something like a .060—.125" or .130" set?

B String:
The B is solid with a nice fundamental—and it harmonizes well across the neck.

Between Bronze & Tapes?:
They are definitely warmer than bronze, brighter than Labella Tapes, and stronger midrange than Flats. I find them like bolder/brighter LaBella Gold-White 750s in sound and feel, with (if not more than) the suppleness of TI AcoustiCores.

'Earthy' is definitely the best way to describe them.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

DEMO:

All audio tracks are DRY/no processing/no plugins. Only leveling the input gain in Logic Pro so that all three channels were more or less the same output. I alternated between the iPhone/pickup/WA47jr channels throughout as a comparison... Headphones suggested.

Gear:
iPhone12Pro 4k/24 video>
Furch SW5 bass/Baggs Anthem SL pickup>
WarmAudio WA47jr Mic>
MOTU 8PreES>Mac Studio>Logic Pro

 

[Mimmo]

Thank you very very much Karl, you have done an excellent work.
I have just a few considerations:
1) I will introduce a better core for the G and D as they are the most critical for the mechanical stability (I have already tested an alternative) keeping the performance the same.
2) It is necessary to increase the tension of the B strings just a bit; but in general I would like to increase the tension of the whole set just a little
3) The ball-end: I will test a ball of 6 mm diameter instead 8 mm
I share these information because I want that all the guys see here the 'work in progression'.
I am pretty sure that this thing normally does not happens
Greetings from Italy
Mimmo

Ah, one more thing: because the core is not a metal wire these strings maybe need an higher action, exactly like happens with doublebass when switch from metal strings to synthetic or gut strings

 

[Karl Kaminski]

SET#2

Mimmo has sent me an updated string formula to try (For my TB posts I’ll call them Set#2). So to my understanding, the original set had a core of all 'Sugar' and this new formula has a core with a blend of materials.

D/G Sugar Blend, More stable
A/E Sugar Blend, Higher tension
B Sugar Blend, Higher tension

Unpacking:

Theres a smaller 6.25mm bead, and the D/G wraps feel more robust. All wraps are nicely smooth and even. The all silks are also at good lengths.



Installation:

*I installed a new nut for this set to insure good clearances.

The new smaller bead makes the install quick and easy—thank you Mimmo!
This should be interesting as the different core blend may offer a different fell/touch/etc.


Playing:

On tuning-up and first playing they have the same ‘Earthy’ tone, as before. Maybe the most noticeable difference is the added tension—this set is feeling more like a ‘familiar’ string. Though, they may have a shorter decay now (TB aka Thumpy-er)—but not choked, yet still ‘punchy’ in higher registers.

The B string feels more controllable, but maybe now more choked in tone from the 1st set.

Again to early to tell much, I’ll let these settle-in and post a Demo after the holiday.

 

[Mimmo]

SET#2

Mimmo has sent me an updated string formula to try (For my TB posts I’ll call them Set#2). So to my understanding, the original set had a core of all 'Sugar' and this new formula has a core with a blend of materials.

D/G Sugar Blend, More stable
A/E Sugar Blend, Higher tension
B Sugar Blend, Higher tension
View attachment 5023087

Unpacking:

Theres a smaller 6.25mm bead, and the D/G wraps feel more robust. All wraps are nicely smooth and even. The all silks are also at good lengths.
View attachment 5023090


Installation:

*I installed a new nut for this set to insure good clearances.
View attachment 5023063
The new smaller bead makes the install quick and easy—thank you Mimmo!
This should be interesting as the different core blend may offer a different fell/touch/etc.


Playing:

On tuning-up and first playing they have the same ‘Earthy’ tone, as before. Maybe the most noticeable difference is the added tension—this set is feeling more like a ‘familiar’ string. Though, they may have a shorter decay now (TB aka Thumpy-er)—but not choked, yet still ‘punchy’ in higher registers.

The B string feels more controllable, but maybe now more choked in tone from the 1st set.

Again to early to tell much, I’ll let these settle-in and post a Demo after the holiday.

Thank you very much for this lovely report Karl.
I can add a few more informations:
1) all the 5 strings are now with more tension in order to match what the bass players normally feels.
2) all the 5 strings are made employing a core that it is no longer the pure sugar bioplastic but a blend with sugar and another plastic called 'blend 60'.
well, with a such set I have seen that the strings 3,4,5 are a bit less powerful than those with pure sugar cores. So the very final set employ the 'blend 60' for the strings 1 and 2 and pure sugar for the strings 3,4,5 (low B). Of course with higher tension. The use of blend 60 for the upper strings is the best solution: they settle up faster and they are very stable and strong.
I am really anxious to hear by you after that the strings will settle up!
greetings for could and cloudy Italy
Mimmo

 

[Protagonist]

I'm really looking forward to the bass uke and the guitar scale strings. I'm hoping the uke version will work on a bass I've had my eye on that has a slightly longer scale than most bass ukes (6-10mm). String choice is the main reason I've held off purchasing it. Thanks to Mimmo and those testing.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Second Impressions on SET#2

Thank you very much for this lovely report Karl.
I can add a few more informations:
1) all the 5 strings are now with more tension in order to match what the bass players normally feels.
2) all the 5 strings are made employing a core that it is no longer the pure sugar bioplastic but a blend with sugar and another plastic called 'blend 60'.
well, with a such set I have seen that the strings 3,4,5 are a bit less powerful than those with pure sugar cores. So the very final set employ the 'blend 60' for the strings 1 and 2 and pure sugar for the strings 3,4,5 (low B). Of course with higher tension. The use of blend 60 for the upper strings is the best solution: they settle up faster and they are very stable and strong.
I am really anxious to hear by you after that the strings will settle up!
greetings for could and cloudy Italy
Mimmo

After getting back and letting the strings settle—they dropped about a semi-tone (1/2 step) over the week—I would agree with Mimmo—these (Set#2) blended cores create an attack response & string feel similar to 'conventional' sets. (I would add that; the strings are very stable and stay in tune—I just installed them then went on vacation so they sat for the week)

The added tension makes it easier to control the low strings, and whole set feels more robust. I really like the how the DG feel now. The set is well balanced and chords sing nicely across the whole neck.

Though a drawback of the additional tension is a shorter sustain and some of the 'airy-ness' in the tone is gone. This 'shortness' in tone now feels a bit 'choked' to me—this might be a plus for some.

As for feel in the hand, I've detuned Set#2 about semi tone (-80cents/A=420) to get my prefered feel. Basically little sharp of Eb tuning. At this tuning Set#2 started to feel, sound little more like Set#1

For a point of reference:

Set#1 (pure Sugar core) was similar in feel to TI AC, TI JR, Fisoma Silver. Tone: Earthy and Dry
Set#2 (blended core) is now more similar to Labella Black Tape. Tone: Thumpy and Dark​

I'd be eager to hear and try the "final set" that Mimmo mentioned—which seem to bring the stability to the DG, with added tension (and tone of the pure 'Sugar') to the BEA.

FWIW, while I know quite a few TBers here that would probably prefer the Set#2 formula due to the increased tension and shorter sustain (aka Thumpier/darker), I believe the tone of the pure sugar core sets them apart from other strings.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

DEMO: SET#2

As I was saying in the above post, the added tension in SET#2 was not to my liking so I recorded two short demos; first in Eb tuning, followed by standard tuning. I think the higher tension has a 'snappier' attack. *And I may not have mentioned this yet, but these strings play really nice with the piezo pickup. I like love the attack and the body of the notes.


All audio tracks are DRY/no processing/no plugins. Only leveling the input gain in Logic Pro so that both tracks were more or less the same output... Headphones suggested.

Apologies up front for the nose congestion and coughing—by the end my cold medicine started to kicked in and I just couldn't stay focused. lol


Gear:
iPhone12Pro 4k/24 video>
Furch SW5 bass/Baggs Anthem SL pickup>
WarmAudio WA47jr Mic>
MOTU 8PreES>Mac Studio>Logic Pro

 

[Karl Kaminski]

after a couple of days in standard tuning, Im starting to appreciate the snappier attack. Even though theyre a little stiffer than I like —theyre very comfortable, not heavy or bulky.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

I'm very interested in this developing saga. So far, T-I JFs have been the best choice for me on both my ABGs, because I'm not going for a "bigger guitar" sound, but it would be really nice to have another option. Other flats and tapes haven't given me what I've looked for, nor have bronze roundwounds or even GHS Pressurewounds. I've always appreciated Mimmo's efforts and experiments in the classical guitar world, and I hope he can be equally successful in the ABG world.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

HI Richard, thanks for chiming in (I thought I may be talking to myself in the dark)

These copper/sugar strings so far are very interesting. They give me the impression of a mix of both worlds (the thump "looking for upright" sound, with the open airy-ness and sustain of that "bigger guitar" sound.)

Just for the sake of conversation, what was missing from other flats? For me, I tried many and the nylon wraps (both EB and DB) had a quality to the sound, that well... sounded plastic-y to me. While I can play them and find some things I like—I always felt in the end they just weren't "it".

One thing I haven't mentioned in this thread is that I think in general my ABG is "mid" forward sounding. When I first got it with GHS PPB on it, it had that 'Jazz bass/mid tone' to it. So some of my search may be working with or around that fact. Nevertheless, I like how the copper wrap brings me to that metal string sound/feel/attack, while the sugar core gives me the response and playability of string like TI AC, TI JR, and Fisoma Silver.

One big plus for me is the muted high-end without losing clarity or sounding choked. I think that might be one of the biggest positives for the "LaBella" and "Upright sound" players.