I’ve been enjoying Upton’s new rosin. It’s sticky but soft, not brittle like Pops. The worst thing about it is that awful paper cup it comes in (like Pops).
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Double Bass Arco technique basic question
- Thread starter BassplayerMF
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- arco technique exercises
I avoid playing open G (and D too) if I can, unless I want that sound.
A fingered G always sounds as warm as the rest of the passage and never stands out awkardly.
I used to practice in front of a mirror.
A video would be better, and fun to watch in years to come.
A fingered G always sounds as warm as the rest of the passage and never stands out awkardly.
I used to practice in front of a mirror.
A video would be better, and fun to watch in years to come.
As an amateur just trying to play better than I did a long time ago, I’ll offer that 80% of practice time ,maybe more is for bowing. It’s hard. Moving the left and right sides of your body , keeping very high precision in sudden starts and stops with the left, while keeping the right moving , is hard. Getting a full core sound at the tip and evenly along the bow. Phrasing dynamics with consistent tone is hard. Having that work with your own intention is too. Making different sounds reliably is even harder. It takes time, a lot of it and you have to keep the skills up . Professionals in orchestras practice hours per day their entire lives because they have to sound good .
Ps in a ISB poll a few years ago the question was “if you only have thirty minutes on a day to practice, what do you do ?” Virtually everyone said open strings and slow scales, after recovering from The initial shock of such a prospect.
Two things that have helped me recently : Robin Kesselman’s Bow Speed Geography , and really learning how to visualize , feel and practice playing away from the instrument. The latter in particular helps me suss out the many details of every note ,and every phrase.
Ps in a ISB poll a few years ago the question was “if you only have thirty minutes on a day to practice, what do you do ?” Virtually everyone said open strings and slow scales, after recovering from The initial shock of such a prospect.
Two things that have helped me recently : Robin Kesselman’s Bow Speed Geography , and really learning how to visualize , feel and practice playing away from the instrument. The latter in particular helps me suss out the many details of every note ,and every phrase.
Check out this series of bass bowing lessons by Andy Anderson. Starts at the beginning.
Learn how to make the squeak. Make it louder, quieter, get as much control as you can of it. Watch your bow angles and pressure. Once you have an understanding of how it works, making it go away is easy. There are no sounds to fear on the double bass and you will be surprised at how useful and even beautiful many of them can be in the context of "normal" music.
Do this for any and all unwanted sounds.
Do this for any and all unwanted sounds.
Oh man, thank you all for your great thoughts and inputs. I really dig this community here for exactly this reason.
Thank you so much.
I had 4 days of concerts with very different projects so I didn´t manage to respond to you all, hope everyone can understand that. I tried to include at least a good 15 minute portion of arco into my daily warm up and it at least feels good, I´m not gonna suggest it sounds 10x better already but slow and steady is always a good thing I think. I´ll try to work with the set up and material I have at the moment since I´m a big fan of trying work with what you have (at least if it´s not completely rubbish) and see where it gets me, if theres no progress after a month or so of practice then there´s definite need of either some lessons and or material change.
I´ll keep on practicing like that with some of your inputs and suggestions, thank you all so much, I´ll keep you updated.
Dig you all and if I can be of any help for more jazz and pizzicato stuff which is more my realm then I´m happy to share.
Thank you so much.
I had 4 days of concerts with very different projects so I didn´t manage to respond to you all, hope everyone can understand that. I tried to include at least a good 15 minute portion of arco into my daily warm up and it at least feels good, I´m not gonna suggest it sounds 10x better already but slow and steady is always a good thing I think. I´ll try to work with the set up and material I have at the moment since I´m a big fan of trying work with what you have (at least if it´s not completely rubbish) and see where it gets me, if theres no progress after a month or so of practice then there´s definite need of either some lessons and or material change.
I´ll keep on practicing like that with some of your inputs and suggestions, thank you all so much, I´ll keep you updated.
Dig you all and if I can be of any help for more jazz and pizzicato stuff which is more my realm then I´m happy to share.
I did a mentoring session yesterday with some young bassists in a group situation. It was a lot of fun and showed me the different types of approaches and problems that had to be dealt with. They had been coached as part of a beginning strings class and had been more-or-less ignored and given bad info such as it was by the instructor, a violinist. It reinforced my belief that a little basic instruction by a good bass teacher is very helpful and important. By the end of the session I and they felt much better about their progress and future as bassists. It really doesn't take that much to get the basics and can really help, as I was reminded yesterday. I would recommend it to anybody starting out.
Or unless the G and D are "exposed" in which case, open strings are your friend ;-) But agree, use with caution.
What do you mean by exposed in that context? Didn´t get the gist of that, sorry
NP, my bad. What I meant is when within the orchestra the DB section is the only one playing...and hence to be out of tune "exposes" you to the orchestra and the audience so easier to bow an open string if your fingered equivalent is a little shaky...
The choice of using open G and D strings or not should generally be made based on the desired sound, but it's perfectly okay to play an open string for short and/or passing tones, and it can be very helpful in making fingering easier. I ask myself if the note wants vibrato; if yes, I play it closed.
Another part of the puzzle is that, at least with accomplished players, open strings are generally LESS in tune than fingered notes, as you can't adjust them to be in tune with whatever other notes/chords are being played by the other players. A "G" in an Eb chord is a different pitch than a "G" in a C major chord, or A7 chord, or Fmaj9 chord, or.... well.... you get the idea. In a fast run, or to solve some tricky rapid string crossing issue, or whatever, sure. If the note will be held for any length of time, a fingered note will almost always sound better, not only because you can shade the timbre by varying the left hand finger pressure, angle, and pad location, adding vibrato, etc., but also because you CAN adjust the pitch to fit exactly the moment.
Just reading through this thread and a different thought came to mind: it’s possible the open G being funky could be caused by a wolf tone. Have you tried holding down a G on one of the lower strings and bowing the open G? If that causes the difficulties starting the string to go away then a wolf tone at or near that pitch is probably the cause. They usually are in the G2–A2 range, and if the wolf tone is close enough to G2 or A2 the open G or A string will be much harder to start than the other 3 strings.
There are many devices to mitigate a wolf tone, but all of those will move its location and change the response of the instrument, so you have to decide if the trade-off is worth it.
There are many devices to mitigate a wolf tone, but all of those will move its location and change the response of the instrument, so you have to decide if the trade-off is worth it.
Just a lesson or two with a classical bassist will help you enormously. Absolutely worth it. Explain your situation and your needs, I'm guessing you just want to play simple melodies or lines without sounding like a bozo. Most younger classical players I've met have deep respect for jazz players and would be happy to help you. When I first moved to NYC I was in your position and was confronted with lots of money gigs accompanying singers, etc. where the ability to produce a reliable arco sound was required. I took two lessons from a guy in the Met Opera orchestra and the little bit of arco chops I acquired led to lots of good work. I developed a rep as someone who could swing but occasionally could reliably bow long notes and simple lines.
Thanks for the thought, I don´t suspect that I have a real wolf tone, I think its more of a combination of the synthetic wound strings I had on plus my inability with the bow.
If changed strings to two still synthetic wound upper and two metal wound lower strings, its already much easier to bow with them, even the two upper plastic wounds. I think the ones I had on before were the most difficult and slipperiest strings I have encountered for bowing which is a pitty because pizzicato they sound really good.
Thank you, thats probably the safest and a worthwhile route to take. Its getting better with the strings and some practice but that wouldnt hurt for sure. As you concluded perfectly its mostly about some solid accompaniments and lines. Thank you a lot.
I find there are some bow placement sweet spots located at the harmonic nodes between the end of the FB and the bridge. Might be useful to explore the locations of these.
this stuff I have to check out definitely as well, there is so much to learn with the bow. Pizzicato feels kind of like second nature but arco is such a different universe. Thanks for the thought!
You got pizz down already. Except maybe for material that is new to you, devote practice to bowing only like 80%. A lot of suggestion here, but the only thing with the best bang for the buck is to get someone to teach/coach you. YouTube videos won't cut it
Even if you hardly use arco, bowing will improve your pizz. Do not get hung up on gear. I had been humbled by middle school students on plastic bows, Chinese strings and plywood basses.
Good luck!
Even if you hardly use arco, bowing will improve your pizz. Do not get hung up on gear. I had been humbled by middle school students on plastic bows, Chinese strings and plywood basses.
Good luck!
This issue here is unwanted noises - not just good technique. Years ago I had student come to me who was on the sub list of the SF Symphony. A high level classical player. He initially came to me for jazz and improvisation and we ended up using the lessons to clean up his arco sound.
I would also recommend lessons with a classical player - just remember they often have fairly one (or two) dimensional idea of an ideal sound unless they play a lot of new music. They use proper technique and practice to get a clean sound and it can work.
It does not work as well as actually understanding the sound you don't want as well everything else the bow can do. I would say get the lessons and see my post above.
I would also recommend lessons with a classical player - just remember they often have fairly one (or two) dimensional idea of an ideal sound unless they play a lot of new music. They use proper technique and practice to get a clean sound and it can work.
It does not work as well as actually understanding the sound you don't want as well everything else the bow can do. I would say get the lessons and see my post above.
"Practice" should be 100% arco. Pizz is for playing and working on rep. which should be seen as different from practice.