Are SX basses really made with American swamp ash?

[Mushroo]

Here's a very detailed powerpoint from the American Hardwood Export Council.

Some facts I learned:

1. The United States is the world's #2 producer of hardwood (behind China) but the world's #1 exporter of hardwood.
2. The biggest market for US hardwood is China.
   
3. Ash is the US's 4th most exported hardwood species (behind #3 white oak, #2 tulipwood, and #1 red oak, but ahead of walnut/alder/cherry/maple/etc.).

 

[Relayer71]

There are 18 species of Ash in America and they are all by definition “American Ash”.
“Swamp” is not a species. So yes. If it’s ash from North America there is no specific regulation preventing someone from calling it American Swamp Ash as long as the wood is from a tree within genus Fraxinus.

Shorter answer is Maybe.

Yep, it's not a species. But technically, that descriptor should only be given to trees growing in or around Swamps - someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I've read that those are particularly light because they grow in or around water; it's the absorption of water at the roots that makes the wood light.

This Spector I own (with a maple neck-through body), only weights 8 lbs:

 

[lug]

Hard ash vs swamp ash (frudua.com)

Where it's cut, what part of the tree is lighter, etc.

 

[ajschnitzelbank]

Around me the emerald ash borer is decimating the ash trees, so many are being logged and the increased supply seems to have resulted in lower prices.

 

[brianrost]

As far as light weight ash, my ash 53 P is lighter than my alder 62 P. Other ash Fenders I've owned were heavier than my 62.

 

[tothemax]

I have an Agile Rick style 12 string that I bought from Rondo, same Asian factory. It's Rick style not a knock off, semi hollow with toaster PU's, Nashville bridge, but about the same size as a Les Paul. The build quality is very good, mahogany back, and neck, maple top, ebony fretboard with jumbo frets. I did have a Rondo SS Tele that was swamp ash, nice guitar - gave it to one of my buds.

Not sure what kind of deal Kurt has with the factory, but he's been at it a while and price point is really good for his mid and upper lines. The quality has been good for the items I've purchased from Rondo. The Agile was $320.00 on one of his sales. It's normally about $800 and by special order only.

 

[RSBBass]

Since swamp ash is really a species, you can call anything that is in the ash family swamp ash if you want.

 

[Ostie]

Around me the emerald ash borer is decimating the ash trees, so many are being logged and the increased supply seems to have resulted in lower prices.

Likewise here. I have not seen a live ash tree in years. Plenty of dead trees though. The state of MI has relaxed its regulations on transporting firewood because there ain’t no more ash trees to infest.

 

[mb94952]

IDK but SX sure seems to make some GOOD, affordable basses !!!! It seems that SX, Harley Benton, and Glarry are the big 3 when it comes to affordable quality sounding basses.

 

[Lesfunk]

I seriously doubt that SX bases are made out of American anything

 

[GWGuitar]

Anyone old enough to remember the 1970s Fender basses? I bought my first bass, a fretless P-bass, for $375, including the case. I worked in a music store at the time and they got in a Jazz Bass that I really wanted, but as a high school student, I didn’t have the cash. I longed for that bass and it lived on as “one that got away.” Someone else bought it. The reason I mention it is that my SX Jazz bass plays exactly like that one. Same weight, balance, neck, and tone.

Fenders weren’t fine works of the luthier’s art. They were working musicians’ tools. The only reason they cost so much today is inflation and loss of the dollar’s buying power. If anything, many modern Asian guitars and basses are better than what we bought from Fender back then. The computer tech that controls the routing, carving, etc. makes a good quality product, saving labor costs. I won’t knock the SX guitars. They are every bit as good as what I started on back in the day.

 

[TrustRod]

Swamp Ash used to be called Punk Ash back when Leo bought it because it was the cheapest grade of ash already rejected by cabinet builders. And it wasn't called punk ash because it grew near seedy dive bars. The same reasons people hate basswood, screws don't hold well, dents easily, apply to punk ash except vintage Fender chose cheap ash over something else cheap.

Asian guitars are often made mainly of American woods. We can understand they can ship us finished guitars super cheap, well the return shipping is even cheaper and that's how they get maple, walnut etc... It is much much cheaper to buy American ash from Americans than try to farm it in Asia. Though there is some farming, Sonokeling for example. You'll never see Asian ash lumber for sale, it's not a commercial product. Tamo is similar but a different thing.

When you want information on wood one of the worst places to get it is from for profit guitar makers. Many of whom still think swamp ash grows underwater and only the submerged parts are light. Here's a good site USDA Forest Service - Forest Products Laboratory

 

[TrustRod]

The only reason they cost so much today is inflation and loss of the dollar’s buying power.

That sticker is pretty pricey too. Sand one off to see how much the value and tone of an instrument will go down.

 

[stingray69]

I used to own this Swamp Ash SX several years ago - nice sounding bass, btw. I don't recall it being heavier than any other swamp ash bass I've owned - especially my Fender American Standard 5.

 

[Bassamatic]

I cannot imagine that it is affordable, especially for a budget line like SX, to ship wood to China. The main reason that all the new guitar factories are in Indonesia is that is where the wood is from. It's cheaper to ship hardware to Indonesia than to ship the bulky wood to China.

And please, let's lighten up on the "exploited workers" talk. Sure, there are sweatshops in China, but there are here in the USA and elsewhere as well. In general, as manufacturing has upgraded in China the last 20-30 years, I have seen worker wages in our factories skyrocket by around 800% or more, and they also get free medical, unemployment, social security, clothing and food and lodging in most cases. They make more than most low wage workers here.

I am talking about the "real" factories that make major name products from kitchen plastics to electronics from Apple to JBL to Line 6 to Fender, and surely Glarry, SX and Harley Benton. The low end factories are never used by reputable companies as they are not reliable in terms of quality or delivery and may disappear overnight.

China can still make low cost goods because the manufacturers saw the future and invested huge amounts of money to modernize and upgrade to major automation and CNC, minimizing labor. This is something the USA manufacturers COULD have done and kept production here, but decided instead to pander to their stockholders. Very shortminded.

 

[kodiakblair]

I was just curious as to whether there is any truth to this claim?

As a few folks have said , it's likely true.

One of the Chinese companies ( "World Instruments Ltd" or something along that line) opened it's own lumber mill in the US more than 25 years back.

 

[Iristone]

Does American swamp ash sound better than other ash woods? That'd be an entirely different topic.
I used to own a Warwick Rockbass made of (presumably Asian) ash wood. It was very heavy, and bright sounding. The wenge fretboard might have contributed to the latter - but it certainly didn't help with its neck stability!

 

[pepj]

“Ethical buying” lol. Your phone, tablet, computer, and half the stuff in everyone’s house come from some factory in Asia where workers are exploited. Unless you have electronics made by the Amish, don’t blame SX for their pricing. I have two basses from Rondo Music that are exceptionally well-built and fun to play. My particular SX bass is alder. It weighs about 10 pounds, very solidly built.
.....

Yep, and at some point all that will become an issue.

 

[kodiakblair]

half the stuff in everyone’s house come from some factory in Asia where workers are exploited.

Are they being exploited ? What part does cost of living play ?

I looked into it over the weekend and it was an eye opener.

Note it only concerned Guizhou Province in China, it's quite a poor area but boasts 29 guitar factories building 5 million guitars p.a. Factories in Guizhou pay a minimum of $5.30 ph , the same as workers would make by leaving their kids and moving 1000's of miles away to the big cities.

$5.30 may seem pathetic but the living wage for the Province is $3.06, so wages are around 80% higher. As the workers are local they are not subject to the difficulties faced by migrant workers regarding accommodation or medical , local government covers that.

Closer to home. Payscale.com gives the average wage at FMIC's Corona factory as $18 ph. Sounds good except MIT's "Living Wage" calculator gives the figure of $24.72 for folks in Riverside County, FMIC staff are 25% worse off.

Both operate on 9 hr shifts , Corona a 5 day week with the Guizhou factories doing 6 days.
Living wage is for each adult in a family of 2 adults + 2 kids.

 

[bassbourne]

Thanks for all the responses! Lots of interesting info I didn't know.