Double Bass Baby Bass megathread

#1,501
EtoBb said:
Thanks for the feedback. I think I was unclear in my question.

I study and play upright. The feedback I’ve gotten from several prominent teachers is that, if anything, I pluck too hard.

I mean that A/B ing the instrument with a traditional fender electric, the output is dramatically lower, no matter how much power I put in the pluck
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1. I disagree that you need a full upright touch on a BB. If you watch Sal Cuevas, Ruben Rodriguez, and the other master Latin players play, they don't play with a heavy touch. I think it actually chokes the sound when you play too hard.


2. I believe that mine also has a lower output, but I wouldn't say it's drastically lower. Make sure your pots are clean, and if worse comes to worse, you may need to replace the pickup. You also need to make sure the pickup is adjusted properly. If the diaphram/coil is too close to the plate, it will choke the sound and loose volume. To adjust this, turn the big screws on each side of the pickup counter clockwise. I'd try a quarter turn and see if it helps. If it doesn't, then put them back where they were.
 
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#1,502
dylanjohnson said:
1. I disagree that you need a full upright touch on a BB. If you watch Sal Cuevas, Ruben Rodriguez, and the other master Latin players play, they don't play with a heavy touch. I think it actually chokes the sound when you play too hard.


2. I believe that mine also has a lower output, but I wouldn't say it's drastically lower. Make sure your pots are clean, and if worse comes to worse, you may need to replace the pickup. You also need to make sure the pickup is adjusted properly. If the diaphram/coil is too close to the plate, it will choke the sound and loose volume. To adjust this, turn the big screws on each side of the pickup counter clockwise. I'd try a quarter turn and see if it helps. If it doesn't, then put them back where they were.
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This is extremely helpful! Thanks for the feedback.

If a new pickup is necessary, what would you recommend?

I tend to agree, a lot of the folks I watch in videos who I would consider to be skilled, don't look like they're beating the snot out of the instrument.
 
#1,504
dylanjohnson said:
1. ....If you watch Sal Cuevas, Ruben Rodriguez, and the other master Latin players play, they don't play with a heavy touch. I think it actually chokes the sound when you play too hard.......
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I disagree. They make it look so easy, don't they? But that is truly not the case. Been there. And I know them, (we lost Sal, though). There is another school in the Latin side of the spectrum, and Johnny Rodriguez, (in Puerto Rico), leads this group by swapping that style for a more percussive style. They play very hard and subtle to emulate an additional conga drum. Most of the NYC cats are more jazz influenced and have a lighter touch. The Ampeg Baby Bass fits the traditional Afro Cuban sound perfectly. But, in my case, I've often used it for the American Songbook standards. Using my 3/4 is a pain when traveling, so I don't anymore. This is where the ABB really knocks it out of the park. Guys I work with are often surprised by it and ask why don't I use it more often? I simply reply, it is of sentimental value to me and I never leave its side, so the bartender gets none of my business and neither do lose women, that's the compromise. A lot of the Bluegrass musicians here down south know of it and strive to get one. That plucking sound it gives just works and with a lot of bottom it does cut across. But alas, it is still an acquired taste.
 
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#1,507
dylanjohnson said:
@Fast Freddie You have the first hand knowledge of these guys, so I'll defer to you! So you are say that the NY guys (RIP Sal) do play with a heavier touch than it appears? Both Ruben and Sal have strong hands, so I could be mistaken! Any insight to this guy's pickup issue?
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From my recollection, (dusty old closet of a mind), when I met Sal, he told me his father started him on the guitar and saw he had big hands, (he made his fender look small). I asked him because I had small hands, and before I got an ABB, consulted with him as I did with Andy Gonzalez, (another famous ABB player with big hands). Ruben and I swapped back and forth in bands, and he too played a fender I believe, (so did I), but I think I got an ABB before he did. Both Sal and Ruben popped and snapped the Fender hard, so I can only imagine they transferred that over to the ABB. That video shows them both much older from when I hanged with them. So with age, the touch lightens up some. Another great, often overlooked ABB player who was actually the one who brought this instrument to the front of Afro Cuban Music was Ruben's mentor, Bobby Rodriguez. He too, had huge hands and played very hard. In his final years, he dropped to a bass guitar. So I hope you're seeing a pattern here. With age, it's a lot more difficult to play any upright hard.

In my case, I too felt that the ABB P/U's were not powerful enough. The ABB P/U's are very different from that of a guitar's, so the choice of a compatible amp is where you make up that différance. One needs a combo amp for a deep bottom. Not those other amps that focus more on the twang of a bass guitar.
 
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#1,508
EtoBb said:
Looking at an Ampeg baby bass, but the output on it is significantly lower than an electric bass.

Is this normal?

It looks and sounds great but it's pretty darn quiet, like I'd need to put a boost in the signal.
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I know that this used to be a common problem on older KK baby basses. There's a solution for this: people put pieces of metal underneath the bridge. There are on mine bass as well. Bruce Johnson and other users wrote about this issue on this forum.

Not sure if it it is the same problem though. Ampeg bridges are made out of metal if I'm not mistaken and KK uses wood.
 

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#1,509
doran.dragic said:
I know that this used to be a common problem on older KK baby basses. There's a solution for this: people put pieces of metal underneath the bridge. There are on mine bass as well. Bruce Johnson and other users wrote about this issue on this forum.

Not sure if it it is the same problem though. Ampeg bridges are made out of metal if I'm not mistaken and KK uses wood.
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that’s very interesting. The bass I’m looking at has a wooden replacement bridge. I wonder if that’s related
 
#1,510
EtoBb said:
that’s very interesting. The bass I’m looking at has a wooden replacement bridge. I wonder if that’s related
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Probably not or hardly because most of the material is too far away to have much influence. But the ferrous disks beneath the bridge foot should help as they increase the induction in the coils and therefor the output.

You didn‘t originally mention your DB experience, so I assumed you try to play the BB like a bass guitar as many BG players do when they start with an EUB.
Since you mentioned that you play DB too, it might rather be a setup problem or too less ferrous material at the bridge foot.
BG and ABB might both have passive inductive pickups, but the construction is different, so a lower output and even a higher output impedance might be possible for the diaphragm pickup. But first try adjusting the distance and add ferrous material to get the best result.
 
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#1,511
Hi - My first time posting!
I happened upon a baby bass this winter; not it great shape to be honest, but playable - tuners work, the pickup sends signal to an amp, and it makes sound. I have had a repair person put new(er) Zyex strings on it. They also cleaned it up and oiled the fingerboard. I could use some help regarding the peg. The original peg looks to be long gone. It's been replaced by a price of steel tube, well wrapped in fabric electrician's tape. It rattles. The threaded locking ring is also missing.
My question - does anyone know of a supplier of a peg that would fit, and the hardware to keep it securely attached?
BB.jpg
peg.jpg
 
#1,512
DadeHead said:
Hi - My first time posting!
I happened upon a baby bass this winter; not it great shape to be honest, but playable - tuners work, the pickup sends signal to an amp, and it makes sound. I have had a repair person put new(er) Zyex strings on it. They also cleaned it up and oiled the fingerboard. I could use some help regarding the peg. The original peg looks to be long gone. It's been replaced by a price of steel tube, well wrapped in fabric electrician's tape. It rattles. The threaded locking ring is also missing.
My question - does anyone know of a supplier of a peg that would fit, and the hardware to keep it securely attached? View attachment 5483106 View attachment 5483108
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Maybe @Bruce Johnson can help you out?
 
#1,516
Re: the sound, the first thing I would do is to download a copy of the Baby Bass manual and make sure the pickup and tailpiece are both adjusted properly. The pickup adjustment sets the gap above the coils, and the tailpiece adjustment sets the pressure on the bridge feet, different between steel or gut strings. You have no way of knowing who may have fiddled with it over the last sixty years, perhaps grossly misadjusting it. Once you make sure it’s properly adjusted, if it hasn’t solved your sound problem at least you have a baseline condition to work from.
 
#1,519
Lee Morgan- Live at the Lighthouse Rare ABB use in jazz by the great Jymie Merritt (this is a 5 string, too)
Basically any Fania record (a few have Sal Cuevas on electric, etc.)
Anything with Andy Gonzalez- Fort Apache records, Libre, late 60's early 70's Ray Barretto, etc.
I love Eddie Guagua Rivera with Orchestra Harlow and other groups.
HARD QUESTION. So many great recordings.
 
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#1,520
Fast Freddie said:
I disagree. They make it look so easy, don't they? But that is truly not the case. Been there. And I know them, (we lost Sal, though). There is another school in the Latin side of the spectrum, and Johnny Rodriguez, (in Puerto Rico), leads this group by swapping that style for a more percussive style. They play very hard and subtle to emulate an additional conga drum. Most of the NYC cats are more jazz influenced and have a lighter touch. The Ampeg Baby Bass fits the traditional Afro Cuban sound perfectly. But, in my case, I've often used it for the American Songbook standards. Using my 3/4 is a pain when traveling, so I don't anymore. This is where the ABB really knocks it out of the park. Guys I work with are often surprised by it and ask why don't I use it more often? I simply reply, it is of sentimental value to me and I never leave its side, so the bartender gets none of my business and neither do lose women, that's the compromise. A lot of the Bluegrass musicians here down south know of it and strive to get one. That plucking sound it gives just works and with a lot of bottom it does cut across. But alas, it is still an acquired taste.
Click to expand...
Freddie,

With all due respect but as someone who has recorded and toured with many luminaries in the salsa genre, Johnny Rodriguez is not a bass player but a bongocero. I think you meant to say Johnny Torres ?? unless there is a Johnny Rodriguez who plays bass that none of us in the NYC and PR scene know of ?

But yes Johnny Torres incorporates a lot of slap/ghosted notes in his playing that he picked up from Eddie GuaGua Rivera and Sal turning it into his own thing. I would say across the board that many baby bass players including myself all play with a lighter touch than the traditional upright. Playing hard on the baby bass can actually choke out the sound.
 
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