Bandsaws For Luthiers

[mark5009]

I'm running a Laguna 14/12, and have for a few years now. Being in Oz, we get the 1-3/4hp 220V version by default, and it has been an excellent saw, taking pretty much whatever I through at it.

At the risk of speaking out of turn, I'm going to disagree with Bruce about resawing and not using a fence. I've found with the right fence, the right blade, and the right setup, I can pretty much get down to sub-mm veneers on Australian hardwood with this saw. The blade I'm using is a 1" Lennox Woodmaster CT, which is absolutely the max this saw can cope with (the coiled big guy in the pic--well, big for me ).

The fence setup is custom, one I adapted from an issue of Fine Woodworking. There is a teflon runner on an aluminium track, and large backing piece (which you can't see, obviously), and a 9" very square MDF fence. So far, it has worked a treat with very little drift and a resaw accuracy I can work with (my 3mm laminates come out around 3.0-3.2mm depending on the timber and its curliness). Oh, and using a Magswitch resaw guide in combination has also helped a lot.

Maybe not a general solution, but one that works for me. My shop space is limited, and I find this saw is a go-to tool for me: reliable, flexible, and accurate (given the right, sharp blades).

 

[Beej]

@mark5009 can you put up more pics and show it a bit more? I'm working on a new fence setup too...

 

[mark5009]

@mark5009 can you put up more pics and show it a bit more? I'm working on a new fence setup too...

Will do. Today is a touch busy but in the next few. In the meantime, here is the plan I worked it from, and there are no real tricks (this comes from FW210, Jan 2010). I didn't add in the adjustability, which may be a mistake, but did make sure it was very square (not a mistake)

 

[mark5009]

Guess there was some time. Here are a few pics, @Beej of my version of the fence shown above.

I think the main strength of this design is in removing almost any form of lateral twist. That has to do with the rail, shown here (an L-piece of aluminium spaced by a hardwood runner, and mounted to the table using the existing M12 bolt holes)

And the other side of that is a long runner. In my case some very old stable pine (I'm starting to run out of this stuff, sadly) with a nylon insert. It's sized and shaped to match the trough and the hardwood runner so as to make it all slidey and nice

The rear view is quite boring and stable

And the underside, even more boring but you get to see the nylon runner pretty clearly.

Overall, I'm happy with the result, though the choice of blade makes a huge difference. That 1" Lennox Woodmaster CT is a real beast and slices almost anything well. In combo with the fence, I find I'm getting some good results.

 

[Teacher]

I wonder if a fence that swivels, with a tension on the swiveling mechanism, would be of use.

 

[mark5009]

I wonder if a fence that swivels, with a tension on the swiveling mechanism, would be of use.

For cutting angles? I tend to only need a small number of them--pretty much only 2deg--so I just made a fence to do that (my shop is littered with this kind of jig). I thought about a swivel thing, but you have to align it and lock it, and set it up, and have it strong enough not to move, and I just didn't see me using it enough. Which is why I took the adjustment from the fence I built. But that is me. If my needs were different, sure.

 

[mark5009]

So, this thread got me wanting to try out an experiment. I happen to have a body blank that I wanted to thin down from 2.25" to 1.75". Normally, I'd use a router-as-a-planer setup (Bruce has described similar elsewhere) but, by way of experiment, I thought the bandsaw. It is pretty much at the limit of its capacity it might give me a rough possibility of what this setup can achieve. The original blank is a hardwood/aged softwood laminate measuring (I'll speak Imperial, mostly) 18 x 12.5 x 2.25". The Laguna 14/12 has a max throat of 13" so crank it up, change the blade to the Lennox CT, add the resaw fences, and let rip (slowly!):

With a slow, constant feed, it was easy. Hooray! The 1.75hp motor was more than enough to drive the 1" CT blade though this stuff without boggling, which is nice to know. And here is a shot of the cut:

It would have helped if I'd setup the table to blade angle a touch more accurately, but there is less that 0.1mm of drift over the 18" cut, which I'm happy with. Also faster and much less messy than the router-planer route. Anyhow, just another info point for those playing along at home.

 

[Jisch]

How hard is it to accurately get the blade drift? I think I want to try this method, I'm not having a lot of luck with the two sided push blocks method. I've had some really great cuts, but enough bad ones that makes me nervous using it on nice wood - I've had some bad "near misses".

 

[mark5009]

How hard is it to accurately get the blade drift?

My reading and fiddling on my limited sample of 1 bandsaw tells me it is down to the blade and the setup. Kind of obvious really, but I no longer worry about setting the fence for drift (how can I?), just make sure the blade is running true and square to the table edge, making sure the blade is sitting correctly on the tires, and stuff like that.

But, in truth, I suspect it is 90% in the blade. My general purpose blade is a 3tpi 1/2" x 0.025" bimetal blade made locally. It is a great blade and, when sharp, cuts our gnarly hardwood really well (I'll use one to cut the body shape on this blank, for example), however, I can't use it for resawing that same timber. If I do that, it drifts and I hooped. The Lennox 1" CT? Not so much, as you can see. And I get used to changing out blades, a lot.

All I can suggest is trying to find the biggest, CT blade that will fit on your saw and see how it works.

 

[rudy4444]

Quick comment; Re-sawing comes up fairly often and I'd add IMHO that if you don't set the fence to the lead angle that your current blade naturally wants to cut then you're fighting the saw. What a revelation I experienced when this was explained to me.
A quick web search will explain how to easily ascertain lead angle and how to set your fence accordingly. I don't re-saw all that often, and I don't have any need to re-saw more than 8". With those points in mind I don't have any problems using a low hp saw with a 3 tpi 1/2" skip tooth blade and a single point fence.

 

[Christopher DBG]

TLDNR: If you are in the market and see one of these green bandsaws they are worth taking a look at.

Been meaning to add these for a while. If anyone is looking for a bandsaw and runs across one that looks like this green machine it's most likely a standard issue made in Italy saw. They have been produced and sold under different names including Laguna, for decades. They are generally good, reliable, servicable and not too expensive to buy as long as it doesn't have a Laguna decal on it! I bought this saw from Brown University Arts Department when they replaced it with a new Powermatic saw.

My saw might be a Laguna, the remnants of a sticker show LA... If it was not actually sold by Laguna it is the exact same saw they sold and still sell replacement parts for. I used to know the name of the manufacturer in Italy, but forgot in the 15 years since I needed to fix anything on it. It's a 24" model, but you can find them smaller. I put a 5hp motor on it and it will resaw up to 17" no problem.

I started using 1-1/4" carbide tipped Lennox blades when I used to cut and sell a lot of red spruce flat top guitar tops. It made sense to buy a $250 blade when one master grade guitar top could be worth more than that. Having a standard steel blade wander was a very costly mistake and changing blades after every 15-20 tops was a real pain. Red spruce may be categorized as a soft wood, but it could dull blades faster than maple. I haven't cut guitar tops in years and even though I use the saw daily, have not needed to change the last blade I put on years ago.

 

[chinjazz]

I agree with @rudy4444 regarding cutting angle. I believe it's also referred to as drift angle. Even on my Wen 10" saw, I found the drift angle via web searches, youtube videos, and drew it with a pencil on the table. That angle has been consistently the same with blade changes. The line drawn on the table serves as a reference to set/reset my fence angle if needed. Seems to work well.

@Christopher DBG - I've seen those saws used on Craigslist, etc.. I'll keep an eye out to consider them

All these big boy band saws definitely got me thinking I need something better. I gauge my need by how many times I say to myself: "I really need to re-saw thicker than 6 inches".. It's been more frequent, but I'd say now at least once a day . These are a few more new options in the 14" saw range I've been eye-balling: Rikon 10-324, or for a bit more the 10-326.

Thanks!

 

[chinjazz]

I ended up using the Temflex tape and some electrical tape, per Bruce's method. $2.68 for a roll of Temflex, splurged on the heavy duty electrical tape for $3.50, both at Lowes.

View attachment 3274729
So far, it's working great! No slip, no vibration, the saw is reliable again.
I only did the one wheel, as the other tire was okay, but the cost involved for this, per wheel, is less than $1.
By comparison, a set of tires at the local store is $45 + tax.
Online, still $30 shipped.

So yeah, this method is a great way to do it. Thanks @Bruce Johnson!
If I haven't said it enough... we love having you here.

Hi @rojo412, or @Bruce Johnson,

I finally just got a used Delta 14” BS on a decent deal.

But it needs some tires.

I got some TemFlex and thick electrical tape from Lowe’s and I’m wondering if after you rolled on 2 separate layers of TemFlex, was there basically a hump there on the wheel (with space on both sides)? My wheels have a tracking space of what looks like to be 1”).

One other question, if you have time..

Did you take the wheels off to do this installation? Seems like it might be a bit awkward to do while the wheels are attached.

Thanks!!!!

 

[Bruce Johnson]

That's a good bandsaw, a late model Delta 14. It'll handle most of your bandsawing needs for the rest of your life.

Wrap the TemFlex on the wheel, right down the middle of the rim. You want two layers of the TemFlex, the second directly on top of the first. Make butt joints for both layers: Wrap the tape around until you get back to the start and cut the tape so the ends fit flush against each other, not overlapping. Then do the same for the second layer, but starting somewhere else partway around the wheel.

Then, wrap two or three layers of the normal electrical tape right over top of the TemFlex, wrapping opposite the direction that the blade travels when cutting. You can wrap those layers continuously, overlapping at the start. That tape is thin enough that you won't feel the bump. The purpose of the electrical tape is to be a strap to make sure the TemFlex stays on there. That's it, you're done.

I've always done it with the wheels on the machine. Probably easier that way.

 

[chinjazz]

That's a good bandsaw, a late model Delta 14. It'll handle most of your bandsawing needs for the rest of your life.

Wrap the TemFlex on the wheel, right down the middle of the rim. You want two layers of the TemFlex, the second directly on top of the first. Make butt joints for both layers: Wrap the tape around until you get back to the start and cut the tape so the ends fit flush against each other, not overlapping. Then do the same for the second layer, but starting somewhere else partway around the wheel.

Then, wrap two or three layers of the normal electrical tape right over top of the TemFlex, wrapping opposite the direction that the blade travels when cutting. You can wrap those layers continuously, overlapping at the start. That tape is thin enough that you won't feel the bump. The purpose of the electrical tape is to be a strap to make sure the TemFlex stays on there. That's it, you're done.

I've always done it with the wheels on the machine. Probably easier that way.

Thanks Bruce!

The Delta is a 28-276 (single speed 3/4 HP, manufactured in China), but it feels powerful.

So when running the electrical tape 2-3 rounds, is it a goal to completely cover the track space in the wheel. In my case covering the side to side gap of Aluminum wheel? I hope I’m making sense

Thanks, Adam

 

[rojo412]

When I first did it, I went just in the direct middle, as Bruce descibed. Because the Temflex wouldn't stay put on the first layer, I actually started it with a small piece of double sided tape on the wheel, just big enough to grab the beginning and end at the butt joint.
That got wrapped with the electrical down the middle, which left gaps in the sides, but it seemed okay after the first few tries, so I left it until now and it's worked just fine.

Since you mentioned it, I went to check again and this is what I'm seeing now:

The blade tension seems to have flattened the "hump" and kind of shifted the tape a little.
But the saw runs fine, so I'm not worried. However, it's time to change out this blade soon, so I'll probably redo this while I'm at it.

What you're thinking about the electrical tape - which would be wrapping from edge to edge on the wheel groove, keeping the Temflex just in the middle - that may have kept this creep from happening.
Unless Bruce has a reason not to, that's what I'm going to try when I replace the blade.

And yeah, keep the wheels on, it's way easier that way. The double sided tape can make the first layer go easy, then the second layer will vulcanize to itself and you're golden.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I agree with Rojo; what he's done is fine. All the "tire" is doing is providing a little cushion for the blade to keep the teeth off of the aluminum of the wheel, and providing frictional traction against the side of the blade to transmit the horsepower from the wheel to the blade. From some running time, the tape squashes down a bit and conforms to the shape of the blade. But then it stays that way.

I've had these "tape tires" on my Bridgewood 14 for more than 6 years, and on my Davis & Wells 20 for 2 years. Both still look fine and work smoothly. No real reason to replace them yet. The tape could get ripped if you break a blade, or change blades a lot, I guess. I just keep rolls of the tape in stock in case I ever need to redo them. Not so far.

 

[chinjazz]

When I first did it, I went just in the direct middle, as Bruce descibed. Because the Temflex wouldn't stay put on the first layer, I actually started it with a small piece of double sided tape on the wheel, just big enough to grab the beginning and end at the butt joint.
That got wrapped with the electrical down the middle, which left gaps in the sides, but it seemed okay after the first few tries, so I left it until now and it's worked just fine.

Since you mentioned it, I went to check again and this is what I'm seeing now:

View attachment 3492992
View attachment 3492993

The blade tension seems to have flattened the "hump" and kind of shifted the tape a little.
But the saw runs fine, so I'm not worried. However, it's time to change out this blade soon, so I'll probably redo this while I'm at it.

What you're thinking about the electrical tape - which would be wrapping from edge to edge on the wheel groove, keeping the Temflex just in the middle - that may have kept this creep from happening.
Unless Bruce has a reason not to, that's what I'm going to try when I replace the blade.

And yeah, keep the wheels on, it's way easier that way. The double sided tape can make the first layer go easy, then the second layer will vulcanize to itself and you're golden.

Hi Rojo,

Thanks much for taking the time to post pics and share your thoughts!

I’ll try this out in the next few days

Cheers!

 

[chinjazz]

I agree with Rojo; what he's done is fine. All the "tire" is doing is providing a little cushion for the blade to keep the teeth off of the aluminum of the wheel, and providing frictional traction against the side of the blade to transmit the horsepower from the wheel to the blade. From some running time, the tape squashes down a bit and conforms to the shape of the blade. But then it stays that way.

I've had these "tape tires" on my Bridgewood 14 for more than 6 years, and on my Davis & Wells 20 for 2 years. Both still look fine and work smoothly. No real reason to replace them yet. The tape could get ripped if you break a blade, or change blades a lot, I guess. I just keep rolls of the tape in stock in case I ever need to redo them. Not so far.

Thanks again Bruce, I appreciate your help beyond words!

 

[Jisch]

Quick comment; Re-sawing comes up fairly often and I'd add IMHO that if you don't set the fence to the lead angle that your current blade naturally wants to cut then you're fighting the saw. What a revelation I experienced when this was explained to me.
A quick web search will explain how to easily ascertain lead angle and how to set your fence accordingly. I don't re-saw all that often, and I don't have any need to re-saw more than 8". With those points in mind I don't have any problems using a low hp saw with a 3 tpi 1/2" skip tooth blade and a single point fence.

Where do you find 3 tpi 1/2" skip tooth blades? I bought a 3 tpi non-skip tooth blade and it's not good for resawing, so I'm assuming that skip tooth part is essential. The skip tooth options I'm finding are all 1".