Basic fretless cliches or style guide?

[Mystic Michael]

My ear is not very good. I can always hear when something is off but can rarely tell you if it's sharp or flat. This means i need to use position markers a LOT or I'll play off. If i keep an eye on the markers I'll play pretty well.

If you're going to play fretless, and play it well, you've simply got to have a good ear. It's essential. Do whatever you can to train your ear appropriately.

MM

 

[packhowitzer]

My primary bass these days is a fretless - and I've had it for about 9 months. I rarely get the traditional 'mwah' fretless sound out of it. It pretty much just sounds like i'm playing a fretted bass - perhaps with a little less clank due to the lack of frets of course. Sure I slide around on it and I'm sure there are times where I'm near but not exactly on pitch for a note here and there, but in general it's pretty much just business as usual. So then you might ask why I bother playing one - well the answer is that It's just feels easier to play from an ergonomic standpoint. It feels like I'm much more efficient in my playing and my left hand doesn't get fatigued as easily.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Play in tune. Get a 'tuner metronome recorder' like the korg tmr-50 and use it. Record yourself and listen back.

On my fretless unlined Alembic I follow 124 left hand fingering below the mid harmonic then go to 1234 or 123 on the high end, for the purpose of getting in tune.

Intonation is one of the biggest challenges for all string players. Lauren Pierce's advice here applies to fretless electric. She knows her stuff.

You don't really need lines on your fretless, just like a great violinist sounds perfectly in tune without lines. He/she knows how to adjust faster than most of us to make it sound so perfectly in tune.

It is actually a life long challenge to play in tune...meaning it is part of your practise time, each session.

Practice with a metronome. Any good player can listen to you and tell in 30 seconds if you don't. Phrases that speed up or are out of time within the bar are a serious no no.

Cliches, if you play them so that it sounds like you just made them up, will sound awesome.

Speaking of metronomes ...the groove for bass is HUGE. Lock in with the drummer and kill it with him. You need to play ahead of the beat without speeding up, or play in the middle of the beat or drag a bit without slowing down. All depends on the tune and style of the music and the feel going on.

 

[BAG]

I would suggest finding a good teacher. But if that is not a possibility for whatever reason, read on...

Unfortunately not possible. I live in a pretty remote area and, on fretted bass at least, am one of the most capable bass players i've heard in this region. I've only played bass for around three and a half years and have managed to become decent enough to play with some exceptional musicians lately and held my own.

I recommend relying on your ears, not the markers. The lines will get you "in the ballpark" but they are not exact. Here are a few beginner ear training exercises to get you started:

Sing along with all the music you hear, all day long. (When it is socially acceptable to do so.) If there's no music playing, then sing a capella. Imagine you are on American Idol singing your favorite song for the judges. Or imagine you are singing the national anthem in a crowded stadium. Bonus points for joining a church choir, community chorus, musical theatre production, etc.

This is my biggest weakness. I just can't sing to save my life. It's not that I haven't tried, and i've managed to bring up two teenage girls who sing very well, but even when I think i'm sounding OK doing backing vocals I listen to the recordings and it's terrible. My eldest can pick a chord progression much better than I can..... she seems to have a natural ear for it, and my youngest can harmonise with other voices really well. Whenever I open my mouth to sing they both say "dad.....NO!!"

Use your ears (not the markers) to play in tune with the recording. If you need suggestions for fingering patterns, check out the Simandl book for upright bassists. Once you can play the 12 major scales in tune, move on to more difficult scales and exercises.

As long as i'm not moving positions I can play scales and songs pretty well without referring to the markers. It's when I move that I can't seem to get it spot on enough of the time...... more practice required.

Turn on the radio and jam along. Try to play in tune with the band.One hour of this exercise a day for a year, and you'll have a good ear. Ten years and you'll have a GREAT ear.

This I already do to a certain extent. Due to life, and wanting to also practice my fretted bass each day, I can't get an hour a day in on the fretless. I'm a bit stuck between wanting to get better on the fretted by practicing regularly and wanted to get semi-decent on the fretless. I'm thinking that if I want to get very good at fretless I might need to ignore the fretted for some time....... like maybe ten years

You are lucky because you are self-aware of your greatest musical weakness, so you know exactly what you need to work on. Most people need a teacher's feedback to point them on the right path. Good luck!

Once again...... more practice required.

Thanks very much for your input.

 

[Mushroo]

Must be a wax-on, wax-off kinda thing.

The lesson I took away was: poor intonation and poor time are symptoms of the same root cause: listening. When you practice intonation with clarity and attention to detail, you become a more conscious listener. And likewise when you practice rhythm exercises and focus on locking in with the metronome or drummer, that too is good training for your listening skill.

Back to the topic at hand, a great exercise is to play the open E string as a drone, then find some E's on other strings, and play them as a harmony against the open E. Use the marker line as a guide where to put your finger, but then use your ear to fine tune the intonation. When you are playing simultaneous double stops that are almost perfectly in tune, you will hear "beats" between the two pitches. The beats get slower the closer you are to perfectly in tune. When the beats stop, you're there. Repeat for all the E's on the fretboard, then do the same, finding all the A's, D's and G's against the corresponding open string.

The intermediate step of this drone exercise is to try other intervals. For example you can practice 3rds (G# over E, etc.) or 5ths (B over E, etc.) or maybe slide the 7th into the octave, for example slide D# up to E over E drone.

For extra credit, do it with the metronome.

 

[cheapimitation]

The lesson I took away was: poor intonation and poor time are symptoms of the same root cause: listening. When you practice intonation with clarity and attention to detail, you become a more conscious listener. And likewise when you practice rhythm exercises and focus on locking in with the metronome or drummer, that too is good training for your listening skill.

If it seems appropriate to this thread, any and all stories of your lessons with Michael Manring would be appreciated. Or if not here, please start another!

 

[Mushroo]

If it seems appropriate to this thread, any and all stories of your lessons with Michael Manring would be appreciated. Or if not here, please start another!

He's a great teacher! I took a week master class with him at National Guitar Workshop in the 1990s. His teaching style is all about learning solid fundamentals with attention to detail. He's definitely not a "here's how to copy my licks and sound like me" teacher.

 

[MonetBass]

How is mwah different from vibrato? I've watched a few videos on Youtube about how to mwah, it all looked like a slow vibrato to me. Am I wrong?

Vibrato is a technique used by stringed instruments in the violin family. So finger a note, and while it is sounding, rock your finger slowly back and forth. The meat of your finger tip will make the pitch go up and down slightly. That's vibrato.

 

[zelig.audio]

My primary bass these days is a fretless - and I've had it for about 9 months. I rarely get the traditional 'mwah' fretless sound out of it. It pretty much just sounds like i'm playing a fretted bass - perhaps with a little less clank due to the lack of frets of course. Sure I slide around on it and I'm sure there are times where I'm near but not exactly on pitch for a note here and there, but in general it's pretty much just business as usual. So then you might ask why I bother playing one - well the answer is that It's just feels easier to play from an ergonomic standpoint. It feels like I'm much more efficient in my playing and my left hand doesn't get fatigued as easily.

This. Precisely this. This is the reason I regret getting rid of my fretless, even though it wasn't a great one. I just feel more comfortable. To the point that I actually play better (and in a better mood haha) despite all the specific difficulties of the fretless. The only drawback I felt is that the sound tends to get drowned by the other instruments in the band due to the very nature of the fretless sound.

The OP says that he feels "a bit stuck between wanting to get better on the fretted by practicing regularly and wanted to get semi-decent on the fretless. I'm thinking that if I want to get very good at fretless I might need to ignore the fretted for some time". I really don't understand that. Apart from fretted-specific techniques like slap, practically everything that you'll gain from working on the fretless will revert back to the fretted. The time I had a fretless I studied almost exclusively and felt no problem at all when playing fretted - if I'm not considering that I always wished I were using the fretless... :-D

 

[zontar]

I bought a fretless just before I joined this forum--and I learned some stuff here & online--I already played bass--so I knew some stuff that way--but I am always open to getting better and learning new stuff--within reason for the time I have to devote to it (I am not a professional, gigging, recording bass player/musician who plays for fun & sometimes plays at church--but still want to get better)
What I did when I first got my fretless is spent a lot of time just playing it like a bass--and then also having fun with the mwah & slides & stuff--going overboard to get it out of my system.
I already slid between notes a lot anyway, so going fretless wasn't a big difference that way.
SO I just play it--and it doesn't have frets.

If you have a way to record yourself then do that--play with backing tracks etc. & record that--and see how i sounds...
& do other stuff people have suggested for your intonation & stuff.
Oh, and the timing stuff too.

 

[NullPorch]

The clichés:
-Sliding into/out of everything
-Vibrato on everything
-Playing a billion notes a second across your 7+ string custom fretless bass so everyone knows how prodigal your skills as a bassist are even on a fretless (okay, this is really cool and acceptable in some instances)

The must-knows:
-Play and sound like this:


Whenever a fretless discussion comes up I think of this song. Such a perfect execution of what fretless offers without stepping into the potential pitfalls.

For reference, what I'm talking about is a mix of inherent fretless tone ("mwah") and very tasteful use of slides and vibrato.

 

[AB Nate]

I got my fretless 16 months ago and for a long time I had EXACTLY this problem. What helped a great deal was playing SLOWLY against a drone. The Tonal Energy Tuner app has a very good drone.

I used the Suzuki Method recordings and books as source material both for learning songs by ear and as repertoire to play against a drone.

Also, I bought a long-scale hollow-body and a bow, so I have all the unlined intonation practice I want these days.

Thanks for this. I got the TET and its awesome. Maybe my new favourite app.