Bergantino Forté HP2X

#21
Jim Bergantino said:
Just to quickly comment here. Transformers all have an inherent imperfection in them such that the lower in frequency you go, the more harmonic distortion they produce. It’s just the physics of it. How much power it takes and the level of harmonics they produce depends on many factors in the construction of the transformer. And these harmonics are real. You can see them on an FFT analyzer. The overall effect one hears would not be the equivalent of, for example, engaging a fuzz pedal. It’s a much more subtle effect, but still very real. It doesn’t change the level of the signal (I.e. it’s not the same as boosting a bass eq)but rather adds texture and presence to the signal by introducing harmonics of the root note that weren’t there naturally. They also exhibit various levels of hysteresis which adds some subtle harmonics in of itself from this aspect of transformer behavior. There’s a reason a lot of studio engineers will run their final digital mixes thru analog gear such as compressors with transformers in them, often times without even engaging the compressors themselves. It’s just to get what they refer to as adding the “glue” to the final mix. So there is no black magic here, no pixie dust, just some added harmonic enrichment to the signal itself to add some harmonic excitement and presence to your tone. That’s it!
We didn’t invent any new technology, but rather utilized existing technology in such a way as to give our HP2X the added texture and harmonic enrichment transformers are known for. What we did was worked with Cinemag to design a transformer that would work in our current design and yield the harmonic spectrum we were striving for. Hope this helps everyone better understand the thought process behind the design and why we did it. It was an exercise in good old fashion engineering, not black magic or snake oil!;-)
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Thanks a lot for the very clear explanation.
An A/B demo of the same bass line with the HP2 and the HP2X would help understanding even better the difference IMHO.
 
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#22
gtirard said:
Thanks a lot for the very clear explanation.
An A/B demo of the same bass line with the HP2 and the HP2X would help understanding even better the difference IMHO.
Click to expand...
Given that we're not making the HP2 anymore, it is our position that the HP2X will ultimately be judged in its own right, and for what it is, a new amp, not an HP2 with a transformer in it, (although that's technically what it is). I'm sure there will be posts of players who may have the opportunity to hear both, as our testers such as KevK did, but moving forward we look at the HP2X as our latest offering in our HP series of amps. I very much appreciate your interest and curiosity, and like I said, there will most likely be some who will have the opportunity to hear both and report their findings, but we have no current plans at this time to do any comparison videos, only videos of the HP2X exclusively. Hope this helps! ;-}
 
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#23
Jim Bergantino said:
Given that we're not making the HP2 anymore, it is our position that the HP2X will ultimately be judged in its own right, and for what it is, a new amp, not an HP2 with a transformer in it, (although that's technically what it is). I'm sure there will be posts of players who may have the opportunity to hear both, as our testers such as KevK did, but moving forward we look at the HP2X as our latest offering in our HP series of amps. I very much appreciate your interest and curiosity, and like I said, there will most likely be some who will have the opportunity to hear both and report their findings, but we have no current plans at this time to do any comparison videos, only videos of the HP2X exclusively. Hope this helps! ;-}
Click to expand...
Yes, thank you. I understand your point of view, very clear. In fact I didn't think you would make a comparative demo, I just said I wish that someone will.

If a TB member makes such a A/B demo of the HP2 and HP2X, I see 2 benefits:
- For a HP2 owner, in order to know if he should upgrade
- For others, hear a concrete example of what a transformer can change to the sound of an amp.
 
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#26
I really like my Forte HP and have no issues with it, performance or tone wise, but the extra headroom of the HP2 along with the added texture of the HP2X transformer has me contemplating an expensive upgrade...

Is the hysteresis and added low end harmonics from the HP2X transformer at all similar to what you might get with the transformer-based power section found in a number of Class AB bass amps?
 
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#27
gtirard said:
This answer very well to my question just above. I think it corresponds to my experience when I play with Jule Monique and a few other tube amps or preamps: something I can feel and enjoy when I'm playing, but not really identify in a blind test or A/B recording.

@Wasnex, @agedhorse how would you explain this? Is it "psycho accoustics", does it mean we listen with our eyes, or is it something else?
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Same here. I've got the WD 800. When I use the Damping selector on the amp, the Mid and Low settings I can feel more of a different first, then I hear the difference.

Sometimes I wonder if I am really hearing a difference or if the feel is “making” me hear a difference 🤔

🤣

Anyway, there are enough different amps and sounds for everyone out here.
 
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#28
reading this thread I am for continuous improvement that Jim does recently upgraded to Bamp mk11 and delighted with the new features
I still have the MK1 which I am using with Rickenbacker 4003 ricko sound
the HDN 2x12 is a outstanding Cabinet definitely the best sounding
I do love tube's too having a Ampeg pf50t but as most folks have decided it's lighter equipment nowadays
the New Hpx sounds very interesting and if player's can hear a difference from the older models that's good in my book
Bergantino offer's nice flexibility with the USB features
am I interested in new model I am indeed ,just waiting for a few users to review
continuous improvement keep up the Good work Jim👍
 
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#29
Jim Bergantino said:
Just to quickly comment here. Transformers all have an inherent imperfection in them such that the lower in frequency you go, the more harmonic distortion they produce. It’s just the physics of it. How much power it takes and the level of harmonics they produce depends on many factors in the construction of the transformer. And these harmonics are real. You can see them on an FFT analyzer. The overall effect one hears would not be the equivalent of, for example, engaging a fuzz pedal. It’s a much more subtle effect, but still very real. It doesn’t change the level of the signal (I.e. it’s not the same as boosting a bass eq)but rather adds texture and presence to the signal by introducing harmonics of the root note that weren’t there naturally. They also exhibit various levels of hysteresis which adds some subtle harmonics in of itself from this aspect of transformer behavior. There’s a reason a lot of studio engineers will run their final digital mixes thru analog gear such as compressors with transformers in them, often times without even engaging the compressors themselves. It’s just to get what they refer to as adding the “glue” to the final mix. So there is no black magic here, no pixie dust, just some added harmonic enrichment to the signal itself to add some excitement and presence to your tone. That’s it!
We didn’t invent any new technology, but rather utilized existing technology in such a way as to give our HP2X the added texture and harmonic enrichment transformers are known for. We worked with Cinemag to design a transformer that would work in our current design and yield the harmonic spectrum we were striving for. Hope this helps everyone better understand the thought process behind the design and why we did it. It was an exercise in good old fashion engineering, not black magic or snake oil!;-)
Click to expand...
 
#31
Renowned designer and manufacturer of bass amps and cabinets, trusted friend in the bass community, and one that delivers personal, excellent customer service, releases new bass amp and catches flack from naysayers. Go figure.

Luckily, the neg nels are not forced to give up their favored technology, and can choose to happily move through their day, ignoring or criticizing whatever the new thing.

Others are amazed and grateful for Berg products that evolve and improve, all while their company makes money, continuing their notable and pioneering endeavors through all of the modern turbulence.

Definitely looking forward to playing through the new Forte2x. Being one that rarely buys more than 1 new amp a decade, the cost isn't bothersome in the slightest, and the feature set is attractive, ample, and easily understood.
 
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#33
I just got the HP2X, replacing a GK 400RB from 1987. Still using my GK 410T. Previous (and beloved) amp was a 60s Fender Dual showman.

I've spent very little time with the HP2X, but I've tried my standard basses and one guitar (Sadowsky NYC, Fender Mustang, Gibson SG, Rob Allen MB-2 and Gilson SG guitar with very slinky strings). All I can say is WOW! A veil was lifted, string nuance, clarity, depth... And I haven't gotten started with how much control I have. Even my Wife noticed from another room that she thought it sounded better.

Got to play now.
 
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#37
I am interested in this amp. Is anyone able to chime in on how this compares sonically to a WD800 or TT800? I also have a JFA sisma and a Bareface SMT on the way. I play funk, disco, rock.
 
#38
Good evening everyone whilst not hearing the previous Forte this amp is excellent the best I have owned

I still have my Bamp mk11 as I want to use the ricko sound just waiting on a new cab​

the Forte has more Punch the Rickenbacker sound's wonderful this weekend I will try a p bass and jazz bass as the rick is my favourite controls on amplifier as set flat the drive is really good and suits the Rickenbacker either neck or bridge
on both really really good not done any firmware upgrades yet but next week I will try one or two the amp is very loud and clear something I really like very articulate
 
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