I’ve had this about an hour and Man this is one powerful bass preamp. What Chris said about a tube preamp being like a clean windshield after a dirty drive, this preamp takes to a whole new level. The V8 is simple yet way sophisticated, really looking forward to playing with this preamp.
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Double Bass Brad Sarno’s V8 Octal preamp
- Thread starter flatback
- Start date
The combination of the eq (flat is rockin) and the Vari Z (HPF-Imp matching) is so just right for upright... keep the imp setting low and slightly boost bass or set imp high and slightly cut bass has two distinct different sounds and feels both of which sound good to me. The treble/mid control is perfect for bass (if you turn the treble down below flat 9 o clock it dips rhe upper mids) but the preamp is so clean and present that the part of tubes that makes piezos sound mic like is amplified and that which makes it honk is super diminished. Sweeet. Really woody as hell sounding . This thing would make a gut player really happy, so much rich harmonic content...turn the treble up and somehow it can get really trebly but not brittle weird and so useful...like a clarity knob.
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great
Looks great, interesting that both units fit on top of of one another. That makes for a very clean look.
Yeah Man Brad makes some crazy good gear for upright. This new preamp is so open and harmonic (as you bend a note in and out of tune you can hear the harmonics of the intonation adjust, wow) it is really different and incredible. If you read what he says about it ...it is pretty much that. The best analogy I can come up with is it is like having a medium format camera as opposed to a 35mm. Just more information available.There are advantages to having all that information compressed into a smaller space (like 35mm) but just getting used to the big wide open space of this Octal preamp has the same feeling of going into the studio and having a giant tube condenser pumping your bass into headphones, it is way different then the the one dimensional sound of a pickup in a SS amp. I just don't see the need to blend if there is this much wide open info coming in from the pickup.
The eq does not do dumb stuff for bass...some eq's you twist the knob and find it useless for what you want, this one just a nudge and you are listening for different things, I'm really gunna have to do some gigs with it to see how it works with a band, I think it is gunna be just sick.
I did plug the BB into it, (because when I first contacted Brad he was saying that it wouldn't be redundant to have the BB out in front of the V8...even though he put the VariZ on the V8 for me) and I gotta say for anyone interested in getting into a tube front end, the Sarno Black Box is the best goddamn deal in sound I can imagine. The BB has a kind of punch and directness that going into the big wide open V8 is super sick, but going into anything else is sick too.
V8 Octal Preamp, Supreme tone machine, circuit minimalism l Sarno Music Solutions
The eq does not do dumb stuff for bass...some eq's you twist the knob and find it useless for what you want, this one just a nudge and you are listening for different things, I'm really gunna have to do some gigs with it to see how it works with a band, I think it is gunna be just sick.
I did plug the BB into it, (because when I first contacted Brad he was saying that it wouldn't be redundant to have the BB out in front of the V8...even though he put the VariZ on the V8 for me) and I gotta say for anyone interested in getting into a tube front end, the Sarno Black Box is the best goddamn deal in sound I can imagine. The BB has a kind of punch and directness that going into the big wide open V8 is super sick, but going into anything else is sick too.
V8 Octal Preamp, Supreme tone machine, circuit minimalism l Sarno Music Solutions
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Looks great. I wish that on the website the pics would get enlarged if you clicked on them - a little hard to see it up close. Also - XLR out is not standard, it costs extra if I'm reading it correctly.
That said - love the approach.
That said - love the approach.
Dang it flatback, I just get half way caught up with you in equipment and you come up with something new I can’t live without! Seriously though this sounds like a great piece of gear, especially for the money.Two questions...what’s it sitting on top of, and did you have the knob on the side custom installed? Thanks, Keith
...I could be wrong...I was testing it by plugging it into my looping pedal which has its own voicing, but I used the Transformer xlr out to it and it feels really nicely compressed just a touch. I really wouldn't know if I am imagining that or what but I really liked it. Can't wait to hear it sent FOH.
The knob on the side is the Vari Z imp matching thing that is on the BB . It works really well here too as a HPF to clean up the bass and direct the sound.The power amp is a bassics...it is good. I cant tell if it is noisy or if my power supply is, but it is good clean class D power.
I think I am done now for a good long while.
The knob on the side is the Vari Z imp matching thing that is on the BB . It works really well here too as a HPF to clean up the bass and direct the sound.The power amp is a bassics...it is good. I cant tell if it is noisy or if my power supply is, but it is good clean class D power.
I think I am done now for a good long while.
Im gunna post Brads response to my initial wonder at his virtuosity:
Ha!!
Well right on. So glad to hear all this. And no, it’s not at all weird to use the Black Box with the V8. That’s the best it gets for pedal steel, so why not upright bass. That’s kinda the whole Revelation Preamp topology, in principle. Black Box is the pickup driver and the V8 is the preamp. Makes sense to me.
The Octal gets better. I know talking about audio gets tough as we cross into psychoacoustics and dimensionality, but the Octals get VERY 3D in the musical mids after they’ve broken in for a few dozen hours. It’s quite the thing, real visual, very musical. I mean, the thing is already doing that do a large degree, but it just gets better as well as the top end which will also turn a hint more silky and less glassy as the capacitors break in.
Keep me posted!! This is exciting.
Brad
Ha!!
Well right on. So glad to hear all this. And no, it’s not at all weird to use the Black Box with the V8. That’s the best it gets for pedal steel, so why not upright bass. That’s kinda the whole Revelation Preamp topology, in principle. Black Box is the pickup driver and the V8 is the preamp. Makes sense to me.
The Octal gets better. I know talking about audio gets tough as we cross into psychoacoustics and dimensionality, but the Octals get VERY 3D in the musical mids after they’ve broken in for a few dozen hours. It’s quite the thing, real visual, very musical. I mean, the thing is already doing that do a large degree, but it just gets better as well as the top end which will also turn a hint more silky and less glassy as the capacitors break in.
Keep me posted!! This is exciting.
Brad
I’m not ready to dump any gear but if I use my Yamahiko/Krivo combo into Felix into black box , to Bergantino Forte & Ref 112, do you think the black box would improve the sound?Or maybe just a Yamahiko to black box to Forte? Will you get a tube type sound from black box only, you know without the V8 Octal preamp?
I can testify to the fact that Octal tubes i.e. 6SL7's sound fuller, warmer, and more pleasing to the ear than Noval's. All you have to do is put
a Fender Bassman besides a Ampeg B-15N from the same period and you can immidately hear the difference. That's why B-15N's are getting
premium prices in the used market these days. That said, I'm very happy with the sound of the Grace Felix on it's own, especially when you use one
of Mikes cabinets with it.
a Fender Bassman besides a Ampeg B-15N from the same period and you can immidately hear the difference. That's why B-15N's are getting
premium prices in the used market these days. That said, I'm very happy with the sound of the Grace Felix on it's own, especially when you use one
of Mikes cabinets with it.
I’m intrigued by the Octal but not willing to part with $700+...that said, I’m wondering if the black box alone in my signal would make a noticeable difference.
flatback, sometimes I use both Krivo and Yamahiko, then into Felix to Forte, etc...do you know if I could run black box between Felix and amp? That way I can utilize the dual channels...go from amp out on Felix into BB, out BB into my amp? Does the BB have a tube in it also? Sorry to bombard you with questions, but you know a lot more about this than I do! Thanks, Keith
Based on the fact that Brad has put the VariZ on the V8 Octal Preamp. I would expect the VariZ sound warmer with the Octal tubes in that unit.
Ok so check it out: the Black Box's primary function to be a tube buffer. Yes it has a tube and when you plug the pickup into it, the pickup and tube interact in a way that is special and nice. If you plug it in LATER in the signal chain, then it is NOT doing what it's primary function is. It still sounds great but it is not SEEING the pickup and so the tube warming is there but not buffering. The way to do that with your Felix is by running a TRS y cable from the FX send into (and back out of) the BB. Doing that gets you the ability to have both channels of the Felix running into it the BUT neither will have tube buffering.Their imp will be buffered by the Felix. (not a bad thing at all just not a TUBE buffer)
Brad put the Vari-Z onthe Octal for me so that I can try all the combinations...I have couple of gigs fri sat and mon so I will use the V8 then, but in my studio playing around yesterday toward the end of the day I just tried plugging the BB into the V8. THis is like plugging the BB into the Felix only the V8 is a TUBE preamp with characteristics all it's own (a HUGE soundstage and unreal presence and dynamics and harmonic content) I wrote to Brad last night to thank him and tell him how great the V8 sounds and I asked if it is weird that I really like the sound of the BB>V8 and he said no it is not weird it is the ultimate because the BB is acting as the tube buffer and the V8 as the preamp. In fact it is TOTALLY sick. THe V8 has a wide open soundstage that I am sure if that is all I had (especially with the Vari Z) I would be happy forever. IT is on it's own an incredible creation (and WAY WAY different from an old B15 soundstage because of the TIGHT class D poweramp and the MAS speaker and because of Brad's personal magic)
My last few posts are just saying; getting the BB as a tube buffer for a piezo is the best most cost effective way to improve your sound and get the tube advantage..AFTER that you generally go into a preamp (like the front end of an amp, a Felix, EDB1 etc) although for the past few weeks I have been using it DIRECTLY into a poweramp without another preamp and it sounds stellar just like that no need (on my bass) for any eq.
BUT running the BB INTO the V8 means that the variZ on the V8 is not used (the rest of the preamp is) because the VariZ on the BB is acting as the tube buffer. And THAT sounds the most killing. Make sense? The V8 then takes the place of the Felix.
Brad put the Vari-Z onthe Octal for me so that I can try all the combinations...I have couple of gigs fri sat and mon so I will use the V8 then, but in my studio playing around yesterday toward the end of the day I just tried plugging the BB into the V8. THis is like plugging the BB into the Felix only the V8 is a TUBE preamp with characteristics all it's own (a HUGE soundstage and unreal presence and dynamics and harmonic content) I wrote to Brad last night to thank him and tell him how great the V8 sounds and I asked if it is weird that I really like the sound of the BB>V8 and he said no it is not weird it is the ultimate because the BB is acting as the tube buffer and the V8 as the preamp. In fact it is TOTALLY sick. THe V8 has a wide open soundstage that I am sure if that is all I had (especially with the Vari Z) I would be happy forever. IT is on it's own an incredible creation (and WAY WAY different from an old B15 soundstage because of the TIGHT class D poweramp and the MAS speaker and because of Brad's personal magic)
My last few posts are just saying; getting the BB as a tube buffer for a piezo is the best most cost effective way to improve your sound and get the tube advantage..AFTER that you generally go into a preamp (like the front end of an amp, a Felix, EDB1 etc) although for the past few weeks I have been using it DIRECTLY into a poweramp without another preamp and it sounds stellar just like that no need (on my bass) for any eq.
BUT running the BB INTO the V8 means that the variZ on the V8 is not used (the rest of the preamp is) because the VariZ on the BB is acting as the tube buffer. And THAT sounds the most killing. Make sense? The V8 then takes the place of the Felix.
Got it, thanks for the great explanation FB... I now have the idea locked in my head! I had an Ampeg PF50T but returned it because it didn’t sound any better than any other amps I have. The V8/BB sounds like the Lions Roar (a really big cat’s meow...just made that up). Thanks again so much for the deep reviews and explanation!
So, if I already have a great preamp (as I have), would it make more sense to buy the BB and then run it into my preamp or try to sell my preamp and just get the v8 instead?
Buying both the Bb and the v8 feels a bit....
I was saving up for a schoeps but now I'm confused!
You don't feel the need of using a mic any longer?
Buying both the Bb and the v8 feels a bit....
I was saving up for a schoeps but now I'm confused!
You don't feel the need of using a mic any longer?
The description sounds really great... if you use any kind of pickup... for me I've decided not to return to PU's, because I couldn't find any pickup sounding almost good as the sound with a good mic
and using the remic or a Brauner require phantom power... so I will stay at the Felix... who sounds "not soooo bad" at all but congrats to your experience and the feeling of having found "your sound-solution"
Hey Man I just got the V8 so I don't know yet what I think. But in getting it and comparing it with the BB for a day I can say this, if I wanted to use the Felix because I needed to run a mic FOH and the pickup to my amp I'd get the BB and run the pickup into that first. The BB just by itself with no tone controls and only the one out straight into the poweramp is totally killing on my bass. It sounds great into anything after that: the ToneDexter (I don't even wanna go there right now) felix amp etc. THey just give you more control of the sound via eq and routing via DI. But the sound that comes out of the BB is what is special. The V8 has different kind of tubes in it and the sound stage of that is huge...it means that the sound is full of potent harmonics or something I dont know, but it makes the sound giant yet controlled. It has this stellar eq and a transformer XLR out. If you plug your pickup directly into it (with the Vari Z working slightly differently because the tube has other characteristics.) It has a bigger space then the BB because the pickup is going directly into it. Some cats are going to just love like that I know, slightly diffuse because of its bigness, but if you plug the BB into it first, it is just the best of both.But I just got it so Im happy.
@LaFaro01 yeah I really like the Felix and keep coming back to it's versatility and great sound. Man I have not even started to try to put mics and contact mics thru either of these boxes, but I am going to. I have the Remic and Ischell and others and I have always loved tube mics,so I plan right now to try the Remic into the Felix but then have the V8 in the FX loop. I'll bet is sounds great.
@LaFaro01 yeah I really like the Felix and keep coming back to it's versatility and great sound. Man I have not even started to try to put mics and contact mics thru either of these boxes, but I am going to. I have the Remic and Ischell and others and I have always loved tube mics,so I plan right now to try the Remic into the Felix but then have the V8 in the FX loop. I'll bet is sounds great.