Broken Bassman 100t, are my expectations too high?

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Polka1

Jul 25, 2018
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#1
I bought a new Fender Bassman 100t late Summer 2018. I was pretty happy with it until around early Oct 2019 when it started taking out main fuses with no warning signs. This is where the kind of long story begins. The short story is it's been in the shop and only has worked for a few hours since 11 months ago.

Long story -

It went to one of Fender's local warranty repair techs for review, who had trouble replicating the issue, but did find the power tubes were not great. We swapped the tubes at my cost (just out of tube warranty) and I used it for another few weeks before the main fuse went again, this being around end of year 2019. This time, the tech the ran the thing for weeks and could not replicate the issue. He went through it and though he found some suspect connections, touched those up and returned it to me. It blew the main again on me before I could fully dial in the tone after letting it warm up. I couldn't get it back to the tech right away and then the Covid lock down began. In the mean time I reached out to Fender CS to ask what their thoughts were directly - the answer being sorry, but send it back to the same tech, as he was the best bet to figure it out. I returned the amp as soon as I reasonably could with the lock down and shops slowly opening back up - late June. This time he ran it again for a few weeks but was finally successful in replicating the fuse blowing, but the cause is still unclear. The unit currently sits waiting for Fender to decide what to do. Apparently, as of this week, they are waiting for some type of approval to replace the main board.

Meanwhile, I am without an amp for basically 1 year of the two years I've owned it. Covid delays are very real - I completely get that. It directly caused a fairly large delay given the repair shop was closed for a few months. And I expect them to be a bit slower if open. Even still, this thing seems to have a phantom issues and they seem to be dragging their feet. And it was effectively broken long before Covid was in the picture.

FWIW, the tech seems to be doing his best, but the issue isn't presenting itself very clearly. He seems to be about as frustrated as I am. Fender seems to be completely dragging their feet and not offering any real options.

This is my first new tube amp in a while. I did run Ampegs in the SLM days and they swapped multiple units out for me at the hint of an issue - no questions, no delays. I am not exactly expecting that type of service, but this is getting a bit absurd - especially given a repeat phantom problem with no solid answer.

Given the situation is it unreasonable to be a bit pissed about how this is being handled? Is it out of line to be upset that countless hours of test time have been put on the new tubes that I purchased? If it was a car they would have had to buy it back long ago....
 
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#2
I'd be pretty unhappy at this point.

Has the tech been testing using your speaker and cable? If not, that seems like a good place to look for problems, since you seem to have the problem consistently, and the tech does not. The tech should have brought this up already. If he didn't, I'd start to think maybe the tech is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

What does the tech mean by "ran it for weeks"? Was it powered up, power cycled, played through for weeks? Or did the tech have it for weeks and occasionally poke at it?

Is this the only warranty repair tech available to you? Have you talked directly to Fender customer service?
 
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#3
The tech didn't think the cab should take out the main fuse, the subject was brought up. He has not used my cab or cable. That is beyond my expertise to call out as wrong, so I never pushed the issue further.

As far as I know he had it powered on for very long periods of time and played through it intermittently on his test table. Not sure if it was given any kind of dummy load, I didn't dig that deep, but I did mention that it blew fuses driven fairly hard in both 100w and 25w modes. Specific vibrations were a concern I thought of and mentioned the last time I returned it to the shop. I was playing it on top of an 810 with bass and I think he had it hooked to a smaller cab and played guitar and some other things through it. Again, not sure of further details. He did finally manage to trip the fuse this last round and it clearly had blown fuses each time I sent it to him.

Fender was contacted via email in March and saw the two warranty claims the amp had from it's two previous visits to the tech at that point. Fender said to send it back to the same tech because he was "the best in my area to figure it out" - though there are two other warranty techs local. This was when the shop was closed, so it didn't get back to the tech until June.

He could be part of the problem, but it seems fairly certain that Fender is slacking. He claims that he has been on Fender to provide a solution but they are dragging their feet, which is somewhat believable given my contact with Fender. He does seem to have a solid reputation and decent amount of work flowing through the shop.
 
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#6
I can think of a way that the cab or speaker cable might blow a fuse: an intermittent connection while being driven hard could create an open circuit, the transient causes an output tube to arc internally, drawing a very high current spike.

I agree, Fender should be much more diligent about this.
 
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#7
Follow through with Fender on this. Fender customer service is generally very good, though I'm sure COVID has affected how they are handling (and able to handle) these sorts of issues. I have always found Fender to be fair, ask them if once the amp's done they can extend the warranty coverage for the year you were without the amp.
 
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#9
rickdog said:
I can think of a way that the cab or speaker cable might blow a fuse: an intermittent connection while being driven hard could create an open circuit, the transient causes an output tube to arc internally, drawing a very high current spike.

I agree, Fender should be much more diligent about this.
Click to expand...

That may be possible, I only have one cab to test with at the moment - and no other heads to test at the moment either. I did bring it up as a concern.

It's with the guy Fender seems to prefer and surprisingly he didn't seem overly concerned. Apparently he is in communication with Fender house techs as well.

Sadly, I am not an electronics tech. That said, I am technical with many other things and it drives me nuts when I have to think through and diagnose a warranty failure on something because the support just isn't there in a way that would allow me not to think about it and just have it fixed. This kind of thing is getting close to that tipping point.
 
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#10
Roland GR 88 said:
Ask the retailer where you bought it to contact Fender as well. If they’re good people they can help.
They’ll have a bit of leverage here where you and your tech have very little.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

I tried this method. This was one of my first larger online purchases. Sweetwater was responsive, but ultimately the solution they were offering was for me to ship it to their techs. Not exactly ideal in the best scenario, but especially not ideal if it really is something that hard to trace. It's been annoying enough bouncing back and forth to my local tech.
 
#11
agedhorse said:
Follow through with Fender on this. Fender customer service is generally very good, though I'm sure COVID has affected how they are handling (and able to handle) these sorts of issues. I have always found Fender to be fair, ask them if once the amp's done they can extend the warranty coverage for the year you were without the amp.
Click to expand...

Good idea.

Yeah, I get that things are slower right now. I've been trying to be fair, but it's getting a bit absurd. Should also be noted that it has been going on long enough that it predates any significant USA COVID problems by almost 4 months and already had repeat failures at that point.
 
#12
Roland GR 88 said:
Ask the retailer where you bought it to contact Fender as well. If they’re good people they can help.
They’ll have a bit of leverage here where you and your tech have very little.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

This. I had trouble with my 100T, took it to a Fender authorized tech and they worked with Fender to get it sorted out. Sent the needed part to them pretty quickly.
 
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#13
outoftune said:
This. I had trouble with my 100T, took it to a Fender authorized tech and they worked with Fender to get it sorted out. Sent the needed part to them pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

It is with a Fender authorized warranty repair tech. Bought online, so I don't have too much support from the retailer unless they were to take a shot at repairing it.
 
#15
agedhorse said:
If you bought it from Sweetwater, talk with their service manager to see what they would recommend the next step to be. They may be able to work something out with Fender to improve your situation.
Click to expand...

I emailed my salesperson at Sweetwater in July, hoping the same thing - or to see if they had other options of support. The salesperson created a repair ticket and sent me to their service department, who said they would be happy to look at it if I shipped it to them. They didn't seem to want to get in the middle otherwise.
 
#16
Polka1 said:
I bought a new Fender Bassman 100t late Summer 2018. I was pretty happy with it until around early Oct 2019 when it started taking out main fuses with no warning signs. This is where the kind of long story begins. The short story is it's been in the shop and only has worked for a few hours since 11 months ago.

Long story -

It went to one of Fender's local warranty repair techs for review, who had trouble replicating the issue, but did find the power tubes were not great. We swapped the tubes at my cost (just out of tube warranty) and I used it for another few weeks before the main fuse went again, this being around end of year 2019. This time, the tech the ran the thing for weeks and could not replicate the issue. He went through it and though he found some suspect connections, touched those up and returned it to me. It blew the main again on me before I could fully dial in the tone after letting it warm up. I couldn't get it back to the tech right away and then the Covid lock down began. In the mean time I reached out to Fender CS to ask what their thoughts were directly - the answer being sorry, but send it back to the same tech, as he was the best bet to figure it out. I returned the amp as soon as I reasonably could with the lock down and shops slowly opening back up - late June. This time he ran it again for a few weeks but was finally successful in replicating the fuse blowing, but the cause is still unclear. The unit currently sits waiting for Fender to decide what to do. Apparently, as of this week, they are waiting for some type of approval to replace the main board.

Meanwhile, I am without an amp for basically 1 year of the two years I've owned it. Covid delays are very real - I completely get that. It directly caused a fairly large delay given the repair shop was closed for a few months. And I expect them to be a bit slower if open. Even still, this thing seems to have a phantom issues and they seem to be dragging their feet. And it was effectively broken long before Covid was in the picture.

FWIW, the tech seems to be doing his best, but the issue isn't presenting itself very clearly. He seems to be about as frustrated as I am. Fender seems to be completely dragging their feet and not offering any real options.

This is my first new tube amp in a while. I did run Ampegs in the SLM days and they swapped multiple units out for me at the hint of an issue - no questions, no delays. I am not exactly expecting that type of service, but this is getting a bit absurd - especially given a repeat phantom problem with no solid answer.

Given the situation is it unreasonable to be a bit pissed about how this is being handled? Is it out of line to be upset that countless hours of test time have been put on the new tubes that I purchased? If it was a car they would have had to buy it back long ago....
Click to expand...
No, they’re not too high. And Fender is usually good about things. What really strikes me as odd is you replaced the tubes at only one year. On your dime. And it still has the problem. There is an underlying issue the tech can’t diagnose. I’dexpect it to be replaced.
 
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#17
Polka1 said:
I bought a new Fender Bassman 100t late Summer 2018. I was pretty happy with it until around early Oct 2019 when it started taking out main fuses with no warning signs. This is where the kind of long story begins. The short story is it's been in the shop and only has worked for a few hours since 11 months ago.

Long story -

It went to one of Fender's local warranty repair techs for review, who had trouble replicating the issue, but did find the power tubes were not great. We swapped the tubes at my cost (just out of tube warranty) and I used it for another few weeks before the main fuse went again, this being around end of year 2019. This time, the tech the ran the thing for weeks and could not replicate the issue. He went through it and though he found some suspect connections, touched those up and returned it to me. It blew the main again on me before I could fully dial in the tone after letting it warm up. I couldn't get it back to the tech right away and then the Covid lock down began. In the mean time I reached out to Fender CS to ask what their thoughts were directly - the answer being sorry, but send it back to the same tech, as he was the best bet to figure it out. I returned the amp as soon as I reasonably could with the lock down and shops slowly opening back up - late June. This time he ran it again for a few weeks but was finally successful in replicating the fuse blowing, but the cause is still unclear. The unit currently sits waiting for Fender to decide what to do. Apparently, as of this week, they are waiting for some type of approval to replace the main board.

Meanwhile, I am without an amp for basically 1 year of the two years I've owned it. Covid delays are very real - I completely get that. It directly caused a fairly large delay given the repair shop was closed for a few months. And I expect them to be a bit slower if open. Even still, this thing seems to have a phantom issues and they seem to be dragging their feet. And it was effectively broken long before Covid was in the picture.

FWIW, the tech seems to be doing his best, but the issue isn't presenting itself very clearly. He seems to be about as frustrated as I am. Fender seems to be completely dragging their feet and not offering any real options.

This is my first new tube amp in a while. I did run Ampegs in the SLM days and they swapped multiple units out for me at the hint of an issue - no questions, no delays. I am not exactly expecting that type of service, but this is getting a bit absurd - especially given a repeat phantom problem with no solid answer.

Given the situation is it unreasonable to be a bit pissed about how this is being handled? Is it out of line to be upset that countless hours of test time have been put on the new tubes that I purchased? If it was a car they would have had to buy it back long ago....
Click to expand...
Something to keep in mind about the tech... unless something has changed in the past 15 years, he is only being compensated for 60 to 90 minutes of his time (depending on his Fender Tech certification level) for a warranty repair. He very well may be working on it off of 'Fenders time' (not to mention filing paperwork, ordering parts, and sitting on hold with Fender Support)

Depending on the shop setup, he may be working on it on his own time. The shop I used to work would compensate me for the time I went over on warranty repairs because an in-house shop was good for overall business.

I agree with some of the other comments, try to work with Sweetwater on a replacement. You shouldnt be dealing with this on a 1 year old amp.
 
#18
Polka1 said:
I emailed my salesperson at Sweetwater in July, hoping the same thing - or to see if they had other options of support. The salesperson created a repair ticket and sent me to their service department, who said they would be happy to look at it if I shipped it to them. They didn't seem to want to get in the middle otherwise.
Click to expand...
Did you ship it to them?
 
#20
AudioTaper said:
Something to keep in mind about the tech... unless something has changed in the past 15 years, he is only being compensated for 60 to 90 minutes of his time (depending on his Fender Tech certification level) for a warranty repair. He very well may be working on it off of 'Fenders time' (not to mention filing paperwork, ordering parts, and sitting on hold with Fender Support)

Depending on the shop setup, he may be working on it on his own time. The shop I used to work would compensate me for the time I went over on warranty repairs because an in-house shop was good for overall business.

I agree with some of the other comments, try to work with Sweetwater on a replacement. You shouldnt be dealing with this on a 1 year old amp.
Click to expand...

The tech's compensation is something that I don't know and I am not familiar with the standards. The tech did say that it was taking a lot of his time and he wasn't thrilled to see it again, what you say makes a lot of sense.

If he has a hard to diagnose repeat issue and Fender aren't paying him well and they know that it's been a lot of hours then it makes me even more angry at how Fender seems to be handling this.
 
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