Can’t lower action on G string to desired height - help troubleshooting?

[Stagelab]

I have a 4 string fretless and was able to set the action the way I like it on the D, A and E. D and A are 4/64 and E is 5/64. But the lowest I can get the G is 5/64. I’d like the G to be 4/64. I can roll with it (it’s a nominal difference) but before I do, I figured I’d post here.

Is the only solution a shim? Seems bizarre that I can get other strings to 4/64 but not the G.

For what it’s worth, I replaced the saddle screws a few weeks ago with 8mm cause the original 12mm stuck out a ton and it was a little painful when palm muting.

 

[KenD]

I have a 4 string fretless and was able to set the action the way I like it on the D, A and E. D and A are 4/64 and E is 5/64. But the lowest I can get the G is 5/64. I’d like the G to be 4/64. I can roll with it (it’s a nominal difference) but before I do, I figured I’d post here.

Is the only solution a shim? Seems bizarre that I can get other strings to 4/64 but not the G.

For what it’s worth, I replaced the saddle screws a few weeks ago with 8mm cause the original 12mm stuck out a ton and it was a little painful when palm muting.

What kind of saddle? Pic?

 

[Stagelab]

What kind of saddle? Pic?

Despite how the saddles line up, the bass is properly intonated, as best as one can with a fretless. I think the stock saddles are a little wider than they should be, which is why they aren’t fully perpendicular to the strings. G saddle is bottomed out. The bottom of the screw isn’t touching the bridge plate.

 

[Killing Floor]

Neck shim.

 

[Stagelab]

Neck shim.

Figured. I used to use biz cards. I know there’s a long-standing debate over whether a DIY shim can cause a ski jump over time. Unfortunately, the StewMac shims are sized for Fender neck pockets. Mine is a Chinese import Sadowsky and the neck pocket is a slightly different size.

 

[sissy kathy]

File the bottom of the offending saddle. Shims don't cause ski jumps. A ski jump happens at about the 14th fret area, the shim is at the area of the 19th; and there are four screws between a shim and a ski jump.

 

[DrBnz]

After listening to you I woulda said you need a neck shim. But after seeing your bridge and the saddles / strings looking all crooked. I'd question everything. Whats the history of this bass? Have you had it a while? Are those OEM saddles / bridge?

 

[KenD]

Figured. I used to use biz cards. I know there’s a long-standing debate over whether a DIY shim can cause a ski jump over time. Unfortunately, the StewMac shims are sized for Fender neck pockets. Mine is a Chinese import Sadowsky and the neck pocket is a slightly different size.

DIY shim is not a good idea IMO. You don't need to use the entire Stewmac shim piece. You can cut off a piece to fit. I recently had to do this same thing and a respected luthier here on TB advised me to cut off a piece about 6 or 7mm wide and the same length as the width of your neck pocket. Place it tight at the heel end of the neck pocket. That worked perfectly.

 

[RattleSnack]

I hade same problem with fretted Yamaha long time ago. Didn't know how to shim neck, so I just filled down the bottom of barel saddle. Worked great.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I hade same problem with fretted Yamaha long time ago. Didn't know how to shim neck, so I just filled down the bottom of barel saddle. Worked great.

You can also just re-work the saddle groove with a few file strokes.

Riis

 

[Stagelab]

After listening to you I woulda said you need a neck shim. But after seeing your bridge and the saddles / strings looking all crooked. I'd question everything. Whats the history of this bass? Have you had it a while? Are those OEM saddles / bridge?

Strings aren’t crooked. I just didn’t take the pic at a straight angle. Like I said earlier I think the saddles are wider than they should be. It’s all stock. Sadowsky Metroexpress. They’re not high quality. But the bass sounds and plays great, much better than my old Nash fretless, surprisingly.

 

[Stagelab]

File the bottom of the offending saddle. Shims don't cause ski jumps. A ski jump happens at about the 14th fret area, the shim is at the area of the 19th; and there are four screws between a shim and a ski jump.

I like this solution. I don’t have a nut or fret file but I could place some sandpaper flat on an even surface and run the saddle over it a little at a time. What grit do you recommend? Or is there a better approach?

 

[Stagelab]

DIY shim is not a good idea IMO. You don't need to use the entire Stewmac shim piece. You can cut off a piece to fit. I recently had to do this same thing and a respected luthier here on TB advised me to cut off a piece about 6 or 7mm wide and the same length as the width of your neck pocket. Place it tight at the heel end of the neck pocket. That worked perfectly.

So the shim only covers a narrow strip of the width of the neck pocket? Why not cut the shim to the exact width and length of your neck pocket? What tool did you use to cut the shim?

 

[KenD]

So the shim only covers a narrow strip of the width of the neck pocket? Why not cut the shim to the exact width and length of your neck pocket? What tool did you use to cut the shim?

I don't have an answer. That's just the advice I received from a guy whose knowledge and experience I trust, and I didn't question him. It might have something to do with how much lift you need; in my case I needed very very little.

I just used a box cutter because the shim was only a little over 0.5mm thick where I cut it off.

 

[sissy kathy]

I like this solution. I don’t have a nut or fret file but I could place some sandpaper flat on an even surface and run the saddle over it a little at a time. What grit do you recommend? Or is there a better approach?

I guess about 200 grit, but it'll take awhile. That's why I said to file it; a file is much, much quicker than sanding.

 

[Reedt2000]

Looks like the bridge was mounted crooked, which was a common issue on the 1st batch of metroexpress basses. Shouldn't bother anything.

Just shim the neck and you'll be fine. We're talking about a minute amount of adjustment, a cut off bit of playing card as long as the neck pocket is wide, around a 1/4" in width, right up against the body in the pocket should do it. No worries about it warping the neck into a ski jump.

I wouldn't file the saddle if it's chrome plated (the ones on my metroexpress are) for fear of screwing up the plating.

 

[fretno]

Make sure you don’t have too much relief in the neck. You may be able to get that to 4 as is.

 

[Topkat13]

I agree with fretno. There could be number of things contributing to your dilemma. Assuming there’s a good tech in your area that the route I’d take.

 

[Stagelab]

Looks like the bridge was mounted crooked, which was a common issue on the 1st batch of metroexpress basses. Shouldn't bother anything.

Just shim the neck and you'll be fine. We're talking about a minute amount of adjustment, a cut off bit of playing card as long as the neck pocket is wide, around a 1/4" in width, right up against the body in the pocket should do it. No worries about it warping the neck into a ski jump.

I wouldn't file the saddle if it's chrome plated (the ones on my metroexpress are) for fear of screwing up the plating.

Yeah I think it’s just a bit crooked. See pic. I was gonna swap it with a Hipshot but decided to just roll with the stock bridge. Thought I didn’t like 20mm but I got used to it quickly.

I see your point about the saddle. Shim it is. I spun this one up (pic 2) using a relatively thick paper when I first got this bass but removed it cause I decided to try a higher action. I was going for less mwah. Changed my mind, but kept hearing about the ski jump risk, which is why I posted here today. I’ll install this shim tomorrow and see how it goes. I have some business cards but I don’t think I’ll need something that thick. This shim is about the thickness of a playing card.

 

[Swerve]

Playing cards is what I use for shims, in the back of the neck pocket, cut just past the bottom two neck plate screws. Quick and easy. Jokers, Ace of Spades, and King of Clubs (get it) for preference.