Double Bass Christian McBride on Saturday Night Live

[Ed S]

Billie is awesome. She's such a true sweetheart!

No one has said she is not a nice person. She DOES seem so. She was an amazing trouper in a later skit on that show.. But given that just about all of us pay attention to what makes music good or not, it is at least somewhat valid to observe when wealth/fame/popularity seems to result from factors other than apparent musical skill and ability.

"Overly emotional"?

Really?

I was intending to refer to her facial expressions/contortions. I've never understood when a singer - or musician - screwed up their face to make it seem like what they were doing was causing them internal pain or turmoil, or was extremely strenuous. She wasn't straining for any really high notes or anything that ought to require considerable effort.

Recently my wife and I watched the Hannah Waddingham Christmas Special (supremely missable.) We observed that she seemed to make a point of making clear the effort she was expending. As opposed to someone like Tony Bennett, Dean Martin, etc., who just makes it look so effortless.

 

[Smith357]

her facial expressions made it look like someone was holding a stinky finger under her nose.

 

[turf3]

...You may not like it or think it's good, but LOTS of others do, and that's why she's on SNL and we are not...

Well, yeah, I'm old enough I remember the David Bowie performance on SNL when they carried him out stuffed into a tall trash can and he sang from there.

 

[notJaco]

I get the impression that Christian McBride is happy with his level of success as it is.
He's played with just about everybody and can play with anybody. I've not heard him play a whole lot of electric bass (I know that he can) and that's what contemporary acts outside the jazz realm demand more than upright.
He appeals to me more than Ron Carter in his soloing. More interesting.
But that's another subject.

 

[SteveC]

My wife calls this "sad girl" music. There's a ton of it out there. Some better than others. boygenius is a group that could be considered "sad girl" music. Olivia Rodrigo. Even Taylor Swift. Anyone that YouTube pulls up when you are listening to any of these. HUGE fan base. Some are better than others, but all are very popular.

I'll go out on a limb here (and take the shots that will no doubt come from it) and say that lots of women, younger and not so much, are getting a lot of attention and making a connection with lots of women, younger and not so much, and that's driving a lot of music and streaming and all that. I would dare say that some male artists are maybe a little envious of what some female artists are doing and the success they are having. Taylor Swift comes to mind.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Wow, tough crowd.

As the father of a 21 year old in the theater sphere, I'm not sure I understand the impulse to bag on a 22 year old kid on an online forum. While the breathy singing is not my thing, I thought she did a nice job with a Christmas standard live and on a very prominent stage. Plus, it felt honest, because that is her style. I haven't heard a lot from her, but I think she's a pretty gutsy young lady who probably doesn't enjoy the spotlight as much as someone in her position is supposed to. Her intonation is good, and I've never heard a hint of autotune. I'd rather listen to her sing like that than deal with the overproduced "I'm so hot" Disney-pop and Disney-rap Super Bowl-halftime-show type junk complete with autotune, light shows, jiggle dancing, etc. that seems to be everywhere these days. But that's just me.

As for Mr. McBride, I think he was playing a pro gig like a pro - doing what was required and realizing when he's supposed to be a supporting player. I would expect no less from a consummate pro.

 

[Altitude]

My wife calls this "sad girl" music. There's a ton of it out there. Some better than others. boygenius is a group that could be considered "sad girl" music. Olivia Rodrigo. Even Taylor Swift.

Is that new though? I could go back to Paula Cole, Alanis Morrissette, maybe Janis Ian - there might be a bit of “mad” diced in with the “sad” on some of those but I think it’s been a motif in popular music forever.

Billie Eilish is fantastic. She certainly has an affectation that is part of her brand, but it works. If you compare what she and her bro are releasing compared to the norm in their industry area these days:

- Her songs don’t all sound the same
- She and her brother are writing their music
- Lots of human players are involved

Stylistically anyone can dislike anything, but I’m hard pressed to come up with objective reasons why Billie Eilish isn’t talented and effective.

 

[MuseChaser]

Wow, tough crowd.

As the father of a 21 year old in the theater sphere, I'm not sure I understand the impulse to bag on a 22 year old kid on an online forum. While the breathy singing is not my thing, I thought she did a nice job with a Christmas standard. Plus, it felt honest, because that is her style. I haven't heard a lot from her, but I think she's a pretty gutsy young lady who probably doesn't enjoy the spotlight as much as someone in her position is supposed to. Her intonation is good, and I've never heard a hint of autotune. I'd rather listen to her sing like that than deal with the overproduced "I'm so hot" Disney-pop and Disney-rap complete with autotune, light shows, jiggle dancing, etc. that seems to be everywhere these days. But that's just me.

As for Mr. McBride, I think he was playing a pro gig like a pro - doing what was required and realizing when he's supposed to be a supporting player. I would expect no less from a consummate pro.

Absolute agreement with your comments re/ Christian's playing. I tried to make it through the entire video of the performance, but I couldn't; I just can't stand that much melisma in singing because it sounds egotistical to me... too much "dig me and what I can do" and not enough "dig this beautiful piece of music that I've been given the opportunity to perform." That's not me "bagging on a 22 year old kid," that's me disliking this type of performing. I'd dislike it exactly the same amount of she was a 75 year old fat dude singing it the same way... doesn't matter. She may be a very nice person, but that doesn't mean everyone will like her musicianship. Likewise, there may be quite a few people with some awful traits who do some pretty wonderful things. It's all a mixed bag. My dislike of the performance has nothing to do with any dislike of her as a person.

 

[bassmanbrent]

I've got the episode on my PVR and am really looking forward to seeing it after reading everything here! I have seen BE and CMB perform together once before (I forget what tune they did) but I enjoyed it... All I will say for now is I think it's fantastic that a pop artist with that level of success would seek out CMB. I think it shows just how much respect he commands as a musician across a bunch of genres, and that is a really great thing in my opinion.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Just to be clear, I was speaking to the overall vibe of the thread in question rather than to any single person. Every so often, there is a thread on TB where a young performer - often but not always female - gets piled on for not being ______x enough, or for being too ________x. I remember several Tal Wilkenfeld threads like this, and a thread about how Norah Jones isn’t a real jazz musician with tons of sour grapes about the amount of success she’s had. Reading these sorts of comments always left a bad taste in my mouth, and made me feel like TB could do better in this regard. As a side note, I’ve played with Ms. Jones and she’s the real deal as a musician, and would never claim to be a mainstream jazzer. She just does what she does, and does it really well. IMO, of course. And as always, EEMMV/EEMWCB.

As for Ms. Eilish, my wife would absolutely hate her vocal style, but I see some real musicianship there, and I like that they write their own songs. For the rest, no one is making me listen to anything, so if I hear something I don’t like, it’s an opportunity to just move on and listen to something that I do like.

 

[SteveC]

Is that new though? I could go back to Paula Cole, Alanis Morrissette, maybe Janis Ian - there might be a bit of “mad” diced in with the “sad” on some of those but I think it’s been a motif in popular music forever.

Billie Eilish is fantastic. She certainly has an affectation that is part of her brand, but it works. If you compare what she and her bro are releasing compared to the norm in their industry area these days:

- Her songs don’t all sound the same
- She and her brother are writing their music
- Lots of human players are involved

Stylistically anyone can dislike anything, but I’m hard pressed to come up with objective reasons why Billie Eilish isn’t talented and effective.

Yeah, "sad girl" is not new, just the "branding" I guess.

 

[Earl]

I bet they paid him a lot to wear that sweater!

 

[SteveC]

I remember several Tal Wilkenfeld threads like this, and a thread about how Norah Jones isn’t a real jazz musician with tons of sour grapes about the amount of success she’s had. Reading these sorts of comments always left a bad taste in my mouth, and made me feel like TB could do better in this regard. As a side note, I’ve played with Ms. Jones and she’s the real deal as a musician, and would never claim to be a mainstream jazzer. She just does what she does, and does it really well. IMO, of course.

I agree.
As my wife says, you do you, and don't yuk my yum.

 

[Ed S]

From wiki:

Eilish is the recipient of numerous awards, including seven Grammy Awards, two American Music Awards,[216] two MTV Europe Music Awards,[217] three MTV Video Music Awards,[218] one Academy Award, two Guinness World Records,[219][220]one Brit Award,[221] and three Billboard Music Awards.[222]

Shes been signed to a label since 2016.

the impulse to bag on a 22 year old kid on an online forum.

I think is a tad off to suggest folk are just bagging on a 22 yr old kid, as opposed to expressing criticism of an established and very successful artist and businessperson.

 

[sean_on_bass]

i thought it was a good performance, from the whole band including Ms. Eilish. Actually rather surprised at the intense criticism here, and it's coming from a place of prejudice me thinks. Ya'll just old and cranky, lol.

 

[Altitude]

Dear Santa,
All I want for Christmas this year is AutoTune... I really need it for my live performances of jazzy xmas tunz in front of millions of people on the TeeVee.
Oops...Almost forgot - can you also bring me a pianist who doesn't play lame changes on jazzy xmas tunz? (Sorry, Finneas! You got zero jazz rizz, bro!!!)
Thanks,
B.E.

I’m not sure if you’re asserting she used autotune in that performance, or if it was just part of your goofy language approach there. I did not hear autotune nor the need for it.

 

[crd]

As a listener, I generally avoid commercial music but have done enough pop gigs to respect this type of entertainment as its own thing with its own set of challenges. It's not for me but it's obviously for lots of other people who enjoy it.

The relationship between art and entertainment is some sort of vin diagram. Some music can be all one or the other, a little of both etc. All of it has its place.

The best players I've know in my life have talked the least amount of ****.

 

[Don Kasper]

I’m not sure if you’re asserting she used autotune in that performance, or if it was just part of your goofy language approach there. I did not hear autotune nor the need for it.

She did not use AutoTune in the performance, but she could have utilized it, in a few spots.
To my Earz she has a tendency to sing a bit sharp.
It's just my "goofy" opinion.
IMFGO, of course.
Merry/Happy KwanzUkkahMas!
Thanks.

 

[BobKay]

I bet they paid him a lot to wear that sweater!

Finally! I can't believe it took this long to mention the sweaters both were wearing.

Reminds my of Keb Mo - I Like the Old Me Better.

 

[BarfanyShart]

My only beef is, if you’re going to do a Christmas song as a jazz ballad, why not actually study up on how the greats phrased it?

(At least learn how to not break a line by breathing in the middle of it.)

Her phrasing is universally "bad" by traditional standards partially because she's asthmatic, and she's kind of developed a unique style around some of those physical limitations, along with her own brand of Gen Z charisma. There are probably 1,000 legit jazz singers who could have nailed the phrasing "better" for the 10,000 jazz heads in the world who care, but that stuff is lame - we can hear that at Jazz Brunch down the street. The kids want to hear how Billie does it!