OK...Now your tune is structurally sound.
Well done. I hope you don't need to patch any drywall holes.
Thx. for allowing me to tamper with your creative process.
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Double Bass Coda - More Annotation than theory, but help, please.
- Thread starter TroyK
- Start date
Well done. I hope you don't need to patch any drywall holes.
Thx. for allowing me to tamper with your creative process.
Thanks to you, Don. The creative process and the scoring process are left brain/right brain for me and I just wrapped up the lyrics last night, so I was due for a QC/Edit phase. You saved me some drywall patches.
I did something unusual on this one in that I wrote harmony without naming or spelling chords and then tried to figure out what they were, which is why they were wonkily spelled, but the band played them last weekend and piano player said he was cool and sounded good, so I let it go. You pushed me to do what i should have done, which is apply my composition/theory brain over the top of my creative product.
The vocalist is tinkering with melody and phrasing a bit, but nothing major. This is the last song written for a planned studio recording, so relief. When I have a recording to share, I will do it here.
Thank you!
Harmonically and structurally I think this checks out (or at least, I wouldn’t add anything to what Don said), but I’d probably clean up some of the rhythmic notation, mostly regarding ties: bar 2 would probably be best written as a half note followed by two quarters, bar 3 could be written eighth quarter eighth, bar 6 could have an eighth note triplet followed by a quarter note triplet, etc. I know when dealing with different lyrics on repeats the notation can get funky, but from what I can see the syllabic content of the lyrics stays the same for each repeat.
I’m also just noticing this after I wrote the above, but I’d probably notate the D#s as Ebs, especially over the F7 chords. I also don’t have a keyboard near me at the moment, but I do see a number of D#s in the E7 bars, and as a suspension/delayed resolution or passing tone I think that can be okay if treated correctly, but I don’t think I see any D naturals in the melody on the E7 chords, so the melody isn’t reinforcing the “dominant-ness” of the harmony.
I also like writing chord symbols that reflect the important melody notes (e.g. if the melody has a prominent 9 I’ll write that into the chord symbol), but I know that can be a point of contention among arrangers and composers.
Thanks @the_Ryan , I can tell that I've been in creative mode and not typesetter mode. I need to go back and check this stuff now that it's complete. Bar 2 especially, I have no idea why I did that unless it was not the first rhythm and I just modified what was there without thinking about it.
I've worked with this piano player for a long time and we have an agreement not to start a quarter note on an upbeat (it makes him stabby), so I've got to leave that one. While you're right about the accidental sharp on the F7, I'm going to leave it for now, just because I don't like mixing sharps and flats unless it's absolutely necessary.
But, you're right on all counts, of course. I need to stop celebrating completing this song and apply some reasonable editing to it. As I said earlier, this band is planning an 8-9 song release of all original compositions and one of the catalogue songs is in question, so I wanted to write something to take it's place. This came together in a few weeks. We ran it down Saturday for the first time and everyone liked it, but it wasn't finished. Now it is! Time to clean it up a little...and sleep. Sleep is good.
I've worked with this piano player for a long time and we have an agreement not to start a quarter note on an upbeat (it makes him stabby), so I've got to leave that one. While you're right about the accidental sharp on the F7, I'm going to leave it for now, just because I don't like mixing sharps and flats unless it's absolutely necessary.
But, you're right on all counts, of course. I need to stop celebrating completing this song and apply some reasonable editing to it. As I said earlier, this band is planning an 8-9 song release of all original compositions and one of the catalogue songs is in question, so I wanted to write something to take it's place. This came together in a few weeks. We ran it down Saturday for the first time and everyone liked it, but it wasn't finished. Now it is! Time to clean it up a little...and sleep. Sleep is good.
Generally no.
First part is "To Coda" the second part is the circle with the cross hairs landing spot. Having the cross-hair landing spot in both the launch and the land is weird. Many people do it.... many people are wrong. ;-)
Since you're making this chart a two-pager, I'd move the last [A] onto the second page. That gives 6 beats of rest for players to move eyes from page 1 to page 2, which is better than how it is now.
In the CODA, I suggest moving (Trumpet plays this phrase) to the left, placing it right under the D#.
Where does the trumpet start doubling the voice? Just the last two notes? Put it where it happens.
Going back to the CODA stuff..
The way I recommend is the text "D.C. al coda last x" goes on the E7 at the end of the form.
Then the "To Coda" (I use English, but feel free to use Italian) goes on the 4th measure of the last A
Then the Coda sign, circle with cross hairs, is where you have it now.
Maybe add measure numbers on the beginning of each system?
And now that I think of it, since it's done on computer, and you already committed to a two-pager lead sheet, then I suggest getting rid of the 1st ending 2nd ending of the first half of the tune, and just writing out the 16 measures. Copy paste and computer stuff makes this easy.
Number the verses too... it seems by the double lyrics in the [B A] that perhaps there are verses missing in the first half? All the more reason to ditch the box 1, box 2 in the top and just right out the 16 measures.
The symbol goes to the D.C./D.S. Message or written as a word, above the bar line where the jump is to be made (play the bar before then jump) and at the beginning of the jump point bar, best if placed at the beginning of a staff.
But I‘m wondering about your rhythm and ties. Since you have words there sometimes is a reason to tie notes that may not be tied in one of the text lines below (different number of syllables), but this is not the case here. Often the tie gets dotted in such a case.
In the 2nd bar of B the notation with the tie is correct, in the 3rd bar it is correct in the middle, but at the end it makes more sense to use a quarter note. In any other cases I would collapse tied notes to one (like in the end of the 3rd bar of B), even in the triplet. You might need a triplet bracket in that case.
If a tied note has text (singer), the end of the syllable gets an underline extension under the tied note(s).
Don‘t use a D# where it is a Eb (F7). That is wrong from a music theory point of view and makes it more complicated for the singer to find the intervals.
I‘m not sure if a D# for the length of a quarter note at the end of bar 6 over a E7 chord is a good idea. You may either need to change the note or use a new chord there.
I haven‘t looked at the chord progressions or melody, it is just what I found irritating with a quick view.
From a vertical standpoint, I think the D# in the F7 bar should be an Eb since it’s a chord tone and the melody is essentially arpeggiating downward, and from a melodic standpoint minor thirds are much easier to read and audiate than augmented seconds despite them being enharmonic equivalents. I am not opposed to using enharmonic note spellings if using the correct spelling makes the melody look messy (particularly with octatonic, whole tone, or altered scales), but in this case I think the Eb would be more effective.
Fair comment. I'm cleaning it up a bit.
My goal for this leadsheet is to communicate the composition to the 3 people who are going to play it. They will all learn the song and abandon the chart altogether within a month, so I have the first rule of writing covered: I know my audience.
Personally, if there is one accidental in a song and it is D#/Eb, I would prefer not to be asked to read it both ways unless there was a legit key change, but I'll consider their preferences. Regardless, you are correct, of course.
I did force a page break somewhere in a version later than the one posted. I'm not looking at it right now and don't remember exactly where. I try to keep things on one page and don't usually score out tags and intros, but because of what we are doing with this one, it felt like the right choice.
I do appreciate 100% of the critique, but am surprised that no one has issues with my made up Spanish word.
My goal for this leadsheet is to communicate the composition to the 3 people who are going to play it. They will all learn the song and abandon the chart altogether within a month, so I have the first rule of writing covered: I know my audience.
Personally, if there is one accidental in a song and it is D#/Eb, I would prefer not to be asked to read it both ways unless there was a legit key change, but I'll consider their preferences. Regardless, you are correct, of course.
I did force a page break somewhere in a version later than the one posted. I'm not looking at it right now and don't remember exactly where. I try to keep things on one page and don't usually score out tags and intros, but because of what we are doing with this one, it felt like the right choice.
I do appreciate 100% of the critique, but am surprised that no one has issues with my made up Spanish word.
Can you cite a source for your claim?
This convention has been widely used and understood for over 50yrs. IME.
Here is D. Ellington's published sheet music of "Echoes of Harlem" from 1936 - as it appears in a collection from 1973.
Thanks for your interest.
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Think of a cadence in G minor. You have Bb and Eb, but F# for the dominant.
It depends on the function of a note if it needs to be notated as sharp or flat.
You may need a lot more harmony background to understand that. Classical harmony, jazz is only an extension of it but drops the right enharmonic sometimes for better readability (and confuses people with a good theory background).
First of all, I'm sorry that you are "irritated".
Second, I do understand it. That's not the issue.
This is me communicating with my band mates, I'm not publishing it. Sometimes we communicate with slang and without proper sentence structure.
I can take being told that I made a mistake or that I'm wrong, especially in cases like this, where I admit that I am. Can you handle letting it go and just focusing on a different thread instead of telling me that I'm ignorant and that you are irritated with my notation?
Second, I do understand it. That's not the issue.
This is me communicating with my band mates, I'm not publishing it. Sometimes we communicate with slang and without proper sentence structure.
I can take being told that I made a mistake or that I'm wrong, especially in cases like this, where I admit that I am. Can you handle letting it go and just focusing on a different thread instead of telling me that I'm ignorant and that you are irritated with my notation?
"What is Played Twice, by Thelonius Monk?, Alex!"
(I like the use of the 2 graphic CODA signs, as well...it's very clear what the roadmap of the form is.)
IMFO.
Thanks, Neon, for illuminating the discussion.(See what I did there?)
You should not use ‘D.C. al code last time’ here, but ‘to (or al) coda last time’. Or just use the coda sign with ‘last time’.
‘D.C. al coda’ indicates that you should go back to the beginning and then play the whole song again, but end with the coda this time. But you want to direct the musicians straight to the coda at this point. You don’t want them to go back to the beginning halfway through the last A section, which is what this score says.
See the second example here for the difference between ‘D.C. al coda’ and ‘to coda’.
This is exactly what I was confused about. There are 1/2 dozen? variations and I know that they all mean something specific, but I get twisted around the axle trying to keep them straight.
I asked earlier "how does your tune end?"...It seems like you want it to end on the lyric (ro)-"Mance" (on Bbmaj7). Yes?
If you put a Fermata over the E half-note in the last measure, and write the word "FINE" (Italian for "end", roughly), underneath it, your song will end in a controlled, dignified manner.
You can also indicate that the last few measures will "Ritard", (slow-down gradually, to allow the singer to deliver the final 2 syllables, and the band will be ready for that collective tempo "Ritard", and accompany with sensitivity and restraint.
(...If I'm understanding your "form" correctly, based on your original question Quoted above. Right now it is not clear on your chart HOW you want it to end.)
And here I thought we were through!
Also- Is a "Neru Dame" a woman-person who likes to dress up wearing a Neru Jacket? Si?
Thanks.
Yes. EDIT: BbMaj#11
Hey, you can't guarantee that!
So, I don't want to sound like I don't care about doing this right, because I do and I asked. But, this is a jazz quintet that is learning and rehearsing these songs to record. With a lead sheet (rather than a score), I want the band to find their way and it may not be what's in my head. I want to leave some freedom. I think that's different than scoring for repertory performance, where musicians will be sight reading and playing as is.
I usually don't write out the intros and endings at all, so that a) the lead sheet is a single page and b) we aren't locked into doing it the same way every time. But this is a song that I started writing while tending the BBQ on July 4th and "finished" last week and we'll record in less than a month, so I'm putting a bit more effort into it. They will learn this song and then likely never look at this page again.
Nope. It's a made-up Spanish word, but it does follow a syntax used with legit Spanish words, like "Recuérdame" (remember me) or "Ayúdame" (help me). The difference being that remember and help are verbs and Neruda is the last name of a Chilian poet who our protagonist would like read to her.
See, creative mode, run amuck.
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