Considering using in ears. Help

[WardEarth]

Yeah, the mix for your IEMs has to come from somewhere. If you aren't mixing your own sound then its coming from the soundman. Going to be tricky if you're always at unknown venues with unknown soundmen and unknown mixers.

As for your guitarist, I like to angle our amps inwards a little (across the stage), it might help. Having nice monitors helps as well but only the best venues have those.

 

[sawzalot]

So here's something to shoot for: you can get your own inexpensive digital mixer (look at the Behringer XR18 or similar), an analog mic splitter, and everybody gets their own IEM transmitters and receivers. Use the analog splitter at every venue to send one set of mic signals to the FOH system and the other to your own mixer that has your IEM mixes stored. Every night you get the same monitor mix. Everybody in the band can control their own mix via their phone or tablet. You get more stage space because there'll be no wedges to worry about. It's an outlay of cash so this is probably your long term goal.

In the short term, I use a Shure PSM300 with the upgraded belt pack and it sounds great. That system comes with a pair of Shure SE215 earbuds and they are more than fine for club use IMHO. I got mine used for around $500-$600 including the earbuds, which cost $100 by themselves. Check out the usual sources, reverb.com, ebay, TB classifieds, etc.

Tom

 

[s0c9]

So here's something to shoot for: you can get your own inexpensive digital mixer (look at the Behringer XR18 or similar), an analog mic splitter, and everybody gets their own IEM transmitters and receivers. Use the analog splitter at every venue to send one set of mic signals to the FOH system and the other to your own mixer that has your IEM mixes stored. Every night you get the same monitor mix. Everybody in the band can control their own mix via their phone or tablet. You get more stage space because there'll be no wedges to worry about. It's an outlay of cash so this is probably your long term goal.

In the short term, I use a Shure PSM300 with the upgraded belt pack and it sounds great. That system comes with a pair of Shure SE215 earbuds and they are more than fine for club use IMHO. I got mine used for around $500-$600 including the earbuds, which cost $100 by themselves. Check out the usual sources, reverb.com, ebay, TB classifieds, etc.

Tom

Exactly.. WE all own our own IEM systems... transmitters and buds. Someone (the BL?) owns the mixer and splitter. That way, if a member leaves, they take their IEM system with them and you don't end with the usual "I'm taking my toys and leaving" issues, that plague many bands and leave them unable to function. IF the BL leaves, you have bigger issues anyway

 

[sawzalot]

Yeah, I definitely won't be doing any of that. Appreciate your candor. What do the big boys do? I can't see big time bands doing all that.

Oh but they do, and it gets very complex. Read some of the tour profiles on prosoundweb.com. Or even check out some youtube videos--there's one of Rush's monitor mixer: .

Basically there are two main guys running mixes for the big boys: FOH and an entirely separate system for monitors. They store different monitor mixes for every song, for every player. Even multiple mixes per song--for example in the video of the Rush monitor mixes he talks about how the monitor mix is set up in a particular way for one part of a song and then changes later in the song, etc. Often the guy running the monitor mixer has the much harder job. They hammer all this stuff out in rehearsals before they go on tour and it runs like clockwork during a show.

td

 

[Dbassmon]

If you have a good gear, quality IEMs, and a quality Wireless transmitter/receiver, and a digital mixer that allows you to dial up your mix with your smartphone or tablet, you will be thrilled how good this sounds and how easy it is to operate. If you FOH mixer is not good, it will not help how the FOH mix, of course. Do not buy cheap gear if you go this way, you will end up having to replace it.

 

[Volunteerk9]

subd for some great info

 

[micguy]

Often the guy running the monitor mixer has the much harder job.

As someone who's done FOH a lot, and monitors a few times, I can tell you this is the understatement of the year. Yes, FOH guys, being live sound engineers, are kinda adrenaline junkies - the fact that, if you make a mistake, thousands of people may hear it, is a rush. The monitor guy may not have that rush, but being able to please multiple guys on stage all at once takes a level of skill that's mind blowing.

 

[Scottkarch]

OP, I get your initial fear of this completely different complex system.

Time is tight before shows... for just about everyone. The thing you need to understand is that once you get everything dialed in, you're done. For EVERY SHOW moving foreword.

We started by getting everything dialed in during rehearsals. Once people were comfortable with the process, THEN we took it live ( It was only a could weeks, really ). One member still isn't comfortable making adjustments, but he can just ask for more or less of something and we tweak it for him. Right now it sounds like you don't understand the whole system, and that scares you, and that makes sense.

Once you understand that it can save you time, get you a consistent identical monitor mix every show, it's one less thing you need to worry about..... not many more things to worry about.

Our last 3 gigs, our monitor soundcheck was 1 verse of a song.... we gave each other the thumbs up and were done. That's it. We plugged in, zeroed all the gain levels, started playing.... and we were done. Since all our IEM mixes were all set with all the levels at unity ( 0db ).. as long as gain is set to 0db at the gig.. .then all the IEMs are saved and working perfectly.

It's some work upfront, but it's work you don't need to do every show. And you don't need to rely on other sound guys for more bass, less guitar etc. Time you spend during rehearsal ends up being time saved at EVERY GIG!

 

[s0c9]

Once you understand that it can save you time, get you a consistent identical monitor mix every show, it's one less thing you need to worry about..... not many more things to worry about.

+1000%. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've been doing this (as a weekend warrior with a full time job) for the last 3 yrs.. totally wireless IEM. I've done some 220+ gigs like that.. Once dialed in - and it doesn't take much because you are NOT messing with channels gains, effects and routing like you are with every band at FOH - it's pretty static. Almost nothing changes if you use your own mics, DI's.. like we do.
If you use the house supplied mic's and DI's, then you MAY need to make some small tweaks, but other than that.. plug in the cables, power up and go.
If you can afford it, and are comfortable with IEM's as a band.. I highly recommend it..

 

[jaymelewis]

I use ears all the time - I wouldn't recommend doing it solo. Either the whole band does it, or no one does. It's a bit of a hassle for just one person. Just my thoughts

 

[jaymelewis]

s0c9 has the drawing you want to research.

All the big local/regional bands I'm seeing lately are ALL doing roughly the same thing.

• bringing their own mixer for IEMs and managing it themselves.
• Either providing their own splitter OR more and more stages are supplying a splitter you can tap off of.
• some bands even only feed a LR FOH feed and they have their own sound guy that knows their band and songs. house FOH just handles volume and overal EQ for room.

A bad IEM mix is worse than a bad wedge/stage mix.. but a great IEM mix is better IMO than a great wedge.

The nice thing about having your own mixer for IEMs is you can keep everything dialed in and your setup is as simple as plugging things in and zeroing your input levels so they are the same.. once you have your input gain/levels set to 0 at each location... your in ear mix is done.. aside from any small tweak. After getting things plugged in, I rarely have to change more than 1-2 level in my IEM.. and I do it with an ipad off to the side of the stage.

I'm the master of my own domain... so to speak.

There are lots of digital boards to choose from. Mackie DL series, Soundcraft UI series, Beheringer has a number of models.... that's just a start. You can each manage your own IEM mix with a phone/tablet depending on the unit.

• Getting a quality multi driver set of IEMs is critical.
• Getting a stereo vs mono mix can really help a lot.. we are mono and it's fine.. but stereo would be better.
• if going wired is an option you can save MANY hundreds by using a headphone amp and go wired IEMs. Otherwise I'd look at wireless at $800 or higher.... each member.
• We have a 4 channel wired beheringer headphone amp for $100 total.

Jayme Lewis from thebassist.net has a great youtube video I just saw yesterday and there is a lot of good information on the why and how of IEMs.
@jaymelewis



I'd say you need your own hardware or don't try it. You will probably need:

• Mixer
• Splitter
• transmitter/recievers
• IEMs

Thanks for sharing dude!

 

[QweziRider]

It's a bit of a hassle for just one person.

I'm in a band that does exactly that. Usually only myself, sometimes the keyboardist too. It's proven to be no more a hassle than all of us on wedges (at least with a competent monitor mixer on hand, which is almost always). Send me a line to my transmitter that would have gone to the wedge and we're golden.

 

[Scottkarch]

If you're going it

I use ears all the time - I wouldn't recommend doing it solo. Either the whole band does it, or no one does. It's a bit of a hassle for just one person. Just my thoughts

I agree that it's likely not worth it for the whole splitter, mixer, transmitter/receiver, IEM route...

BUT if I were in the position to not have my own custom mix ( and I have been a couple times lately at festivals where I got outvoted and we left our splitter/mixer at home ) I'd take whatever aux feed you can get.. heck, steal it from a powered wedge... plug it into a tiny personal mixer or get a Rolls PM351 or similar.. you can take the generic AUX feed so you can hear the band, then get your own mic and bass feed and you will be able to control how much you hear of yourself. The shared aux feed along with my mic and my bass worked surprisingly well since I'm much more concerned with how much ME is in the mix and being able to adjust it. The Rolls allows your vocal mic to pass through and your bass DI to pass through to the PA as well.

It's not as good as the full control you get from a tablet or phone to customize your aux mix, but its better than any wedge I've ever experienced.

 

[walterw]

BUT if I were in the position to not have my own custom mix ( and I have been a couple times lately at festivals where I got outvoted and we left our splitter/mixer at home ) I'd take whatever aux feed you can get.. heck, steal it from a powered wedge... plug it into a tiny personal mixer or get a Rolls PM351 or similar..

beat me to it!

with something like the rolls 351 you can "ghetto rig" your own in-ear mix consisting of your own vocals, your own bass and whatever monitor feed they send you.

that and a decent IEM setup like a shure PSM300 and @wolfkeller you can work your own monitors and not go deaf.

 

[Scottkarch]

beat me to it!

with something like the rolls 351 you can "ghetto rig" your own in-ear mix consisting of your own vocals, your own bass and whatever monitor feed they send you.

that and a decent IEM setup like a shure PSM300 and @wolfkeller you can work your own monitors and not go deaf.

I bought a Rolls 351 after one festival with horrible monitors and just before a second festival I was promised had great monitors. They sucked and I'd have been sunk without the Rolls in my bag. It's my disaster recovery monitoring solution I keep in my gig bag. I've since said that I refuse to play any more gigs without our mixer/IEMs and the guys are slowly coming around to it after multiple bad wedge monitor experiences.

 

[s0c9]

This was the IEM rack for one national act we opened for..
They were a 5-piece band..

And this was their monitor console (Venue SC48)
They also has the same console at FOH, but I seem to have lost the pics of that between phone shuffles..

 

[DirtDog]

IF you can get a separate AUX out from the mixer, you can route it to something like the Behringer PM-1 and then to your IEM buds via cable (not wireless). Total outlay ~ $150. There are other more costly options (Radial, Rolls or going full wireless). This will work regardless of if the rest of the band is using wedges or not.

I do this with a loudish rock band I sub in with. They use wedges but I’ve gone IEM with my main band, so I bring this little setup as a low impact compromise (not create extra work for sound guy, but still protect my hearing and allow me to hear the other vocalists more clearly). Just give me the XLR cable from one of the AUX mixes and I’ll take care of the rest.

You WILL need to work with the sound guy to refine your dedicated AUX mix or else you’re at their mercy. That said, you’ll be able to hear the mix more clearly at more controllable volumes if you try it this way.

 

[Mo'Phat]

@wolfkeller - Did you ever come to a solution?

From someone in nearly the same situation as you (national touring tribute), I went with my own personal wireless IEM system for the last two tours and it's been a godsend. Most of our tours are fly-in, play a long weekend or week-long run, and fly out. Backline is either provided, rented, or coopted from local opening acts. We travel in minivans - so the idea of a full band IEM rack setup is a non-starter. But, I realized that the left side of the stage monitor mix was completely different from mine, and our drummer uses IEM's (and no wedge other than kick and a little vocal), so I had to make the switch to IEM so I could hear myself anywhere on stage....or backstage...or in the parking lot.

I rely on the in-house monitor mix guy or FOH guy - most of whom are so used to IEM's now they have no problem with me. I put my transmitter right on their mixing desk and they plug an XLR from an aux send for me. During soundcheck I do the same thing I always have done - point a finger in the air when he going through each of the drums/guitar/vocals until the volume of each is where I want it. Then fine-tune after playing a song or two during soundcheck.

I absolutely went over-kill with my custom IEM's and splurged on 64Audio A8's - which are just the best headphones for anything I've ever used. I now use them pretty much daily for everything from music to movies. They are also very good earplugs for flying or catching a nap.

For my wireless, I went against the norm and opted for a Mipro MI909 unit. It's completely digital and just isn't that well-known in the US. It's been a rockstar for me - was cheaper than (what I felt were) lesser Sennheiser or Shure units, and makes me feel like my money was spent on a quality unit - not copious advertising and marketing. I got it from here: MI-909TR Digital Stereo Wireless In Ear Monitor System at In Ear Gear.com (not knocking Senn or Shure at all - my bass wireless is a Shure GLX and it's amazing)

My drummer is wired and uses Ultimate Ears with an Ultimate Ears SoundTap box. But we're the only two in the band currently with IEM.

My fly-rig is a bass in a gig bag, and a double-wide laptop bag that carries my pedalboard and wireless IEM rig. That's it.


ps - one added benefit is that my guitarist can now mirror his mix into the wedge normally in front of me and he can roam the stage freely.

 

[wolfkeller]

@wolfkeller - Did you ever come to a solution?

From someone in nearly the same situation as you (national touring tribute), I went with my own personal wireless IEM system for the last two tours and it's been a godsend. Most of our tours are fly-in, play a long weekend or week-long run, and fly out. Backline is either provided, rented, or coopted from local opening acts. We travel in minivans - so the idea of a full band IEM rack setup is a non-starter. But, I realized that the left side of the stage monitor mix was completely different from mine, and our drummer uses IEM's (and no wedge other than kick and a little vocal), so I had to make the switch to IEM so I could hear myself anywhere on stage....or backstage...or in the parking lot.

I rely on the in-house monitor mix guy or FOH guy - most of whom are so used to IEM's now they have no problem with me. I put my transmitter right on their mixing desk and they plug an XLR from an aux send for me. During soundcheck I do the same thing I always have done - point a finger in the air when he going through each of the drums/guitar/vocals until the volume of each is where I want it. Then fine-tune after playing a song or two during soundcheck.

I absolutely went over-kill with my custom IEM's and splurged on 64Audio A8's - which are just the best headphones for anything I've ever used. I now use them pretty much daily for everything from music to movies. They are also very good earplugs for flying or catching a nap.

For my wireless, I went against the norm and opted for a Mipro MI909 unit. It's completely digital and just isn't that well-known in the US. It's been a rockstar for me - was cheaper than (what I felt were) lesser Sennheiser or Shure units, and makes me feel like my money was spent on a quality unit - not copious advertising and marketing. I got it from here: MI-909TR Digital Stereo Wireless In Ear Monitor System at In Ear Gear.com (not knocking Senn or Shure at all - my bass wireless is a Shure GLX and it's amazing)

My drummer is wired and uses Ultimate Ears with an Ultimate Ears SoundTap box. But we're the only two in the band currently with IEM.

My fly-rig is a bass in a gig bag, and a double-wide laptop bag that carries my pedalboard and wireless IEM rig. That's it.


ps - one added benefit is that my guitarist can now mirror his mix into the wedge normally in front of me and he can roam the stage freely.

I figured ill just get my own IEM but I didn't yet look into just what to get. I'll look into what your using. Give me a link to your band man.

 

[Mo'Phat]

I figured ill just get my own IEM but I didn't yet look into just what to get. I'll look into what your using. Give me a link to your band man.

Red Not Chili Peppers
Www.redhotchilipepperstribute.com

I took over as permanent bassist in May. Still in the process of changing over our online promo.