Double Bass Correct fingerboard scoop..

#21
Don‘t make the fingerboard totally straight. From a non-vibrating point of view this might be best, but the envelope of the vibrating string is curved and that leads to rattling with a straight board.
The higher strings need less scoop than the lower ones and gut (and similar stretching strings like synthetic core) might need more scoop than metal core strings. You should make clear to your luthier what you want to use.

The double bass needs a lot more hand power than the bass guitar. On both hands. You might want to use lighter synthetic core strings at the beginning, but if you want to bow you need a metal outer winding (at least as a beginner).

5mm of scoop is rather high, but not unusual when using gut strings. But that‘s not the ideal thing for a beginner.
 
#22
To the risk of making the luthiers cringe, and even if i get that the envelope the vibrating string (especially for the first harmonic) calls for some space to be able to vibrate, isn't the string height supposed to take care of this already?
I have a couple of fretless Ebasses, and they all have a very straight fingerboard and even at a low string height, there isn't any rattling even though the strings should have more movement amplitude since they have much lower tension.
Technically it should be the same physics for DB and EB here, or maybe i'm missing something...

Anyway, i like the sound of metal core strings and i never use the bow (and i did tell the luthier so which is why i'm a bit p*****) and even if i haven't been very consistent, i've been playing the double bass for something like 20 years now, so i can handle a bit of tension, just not that far from the fingerboard ;) Not to mention the fact that i don't like how it sounds when it's that far.
Actually my old DB was just fine in that regard, but a couple of years ago, it fell on the fingerboard and everything was broken, neck, fretboard, and top... given the price of the db itself, repairing would cost way more than the thing itself, so i got a new one.
 
#23
In reading the original post.....it sounds to me like the fingerboard could have been dressed / planned properly. Over half the people that come to me asking for a "simple fingerboard dress" are aware that the real culprit is a fingerboard that has been planned out a few times and is actually too thin. When you dress out a thin board, you take more material off and it has the potential make things worse. The fingerboard gets set up great on the top surface, but the extra removal of material weakens the beam strength so the main part of the neck flexes more adding to everyone's frustration.

Adding a few carbon fiber beams hidden under the fingerboard will prevent the neck from bending and also allow you to keep the original thin fingerboard...but....given that level of work, it is the appropriate time to get a new board as the new fingerboard would also cost less than the labor at that point. Trying to convince some folks who read about "some guy in North Carolina on the internet who sayz it, so it must be true"...can be exhausting....
 
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#24
This is a little off-topic, but I am wondering how many of you have encountered basses (mostly school basses I suspect) that have the fingerboards dressed/planed up to about the fifth stop, and above that nothing. Seems to me like a sure-fire strategy to drive students away from DB, since the options are to have the action so low from the nut that the strings choke out above the neck join, or to set the action high enough to clear the entire fingerboard at the cost of it being downright painful to play down in the "money zone."

I have had to replace fingerboards on two basses because of this.
 
#25
I’ve seen a bunch of those on basses and cellos but it is normally due to warping. I see that a lot on Palatino and Cremona type instruments, often with teachers asking me to lower the bridge. That, I do but it can only help a bit. The PVA hotmelt tennis shoe goop the fingerboards are glued with probably allows the joint to slip which doesn’t help.

Directly to your question, I occasionally see it on basses which have no warping of the neck/fingerboards and it makes no sense at all.

I recently had a player complaining that his bass felt stiff and he was asking about softer strings. He had recently gone to another luthier to have the fingerboard dressed with twice the scoop I put in, but it was mostly between the nut and heel. That makes the bass hard to play but it also can create a buzz where the fingerboard begins to flatten out at any reasonable height at the bridge. Flattening his board will also thin it which will make it thinner and probably weaker.

As was mentioned earlier, Chuck Traeger liked 1/8”. Bill Merchant shoots for a bit less at 3/32” and puts it right at the octave. He claims that is sufficient for any style of playing and will raise the bridge if more is needed.

Under string tension, more scoop naturally occurs so there is no rationale for planing it in. Never used any fancy schmancy bars but I can see their purpose as fingerboards get planed down and lose their reinforcing strength.
 
#27
One thing I want to add. David mentioned checking that the neck/fingerboard line is straight. I once watched a couple of German luthiers go to work on a bass with a warped neck and therefore too much scoop. They said that the problem was that the board had been glued on improperly. They got it off in minutes using pickling vinegar in a syringe bottle and very thin blades. They then put the neck in a jig which sprung it back to straight or maybe slightly reversed before gluing the board back on. They were confident that this would solve the problem. It was quite something to watch.
 
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#28
robobass said:
One thing I want to add. David mentioned checking that the neck/fingerboard line is straight. I once watched a couple of German luthiers go to work on a bass with a warped neck and therefore too much scoop. They said that the problem was that the board had been glued on improperly. They got it off in minutes using pickling vinegar in a syringe bottle and very thin blades. They then put the neck in a jig which sprung it back to straight or maybe slightly reversed before gluing the board back on. They were confident that this would solve the problem. It was quite something to watch.
Click to expand...

I put on a board that had completely come off. It was a new bass and think it was just a glue starved joint. The boards I have taken off...I would never be able to put them back on. They just didn't come off cleanly. Thats impressive the could do that. There is a shop I know of has some type of contraption to steam and straighten the whole neck. I didn't get to see it though.
 
#29
robobass said:
They then put the neck in a jig which sprung it back to straight or maybe slightly reversed before gluing the board back on.
Click to expand...

I have a setup for doing that exact thing plus the addition of heat; it is definitely helpful to have in your list of possibilities. One thing that I've noticed happens often- folks go out and buy a nice new fingerboard and glue it on straight out of the box. Almost all of them have been covered with black dye and such so they look good to the casual observer. This needs to be sanded off and expose fresh new wood for good adhesion; without it they can (and do) come loose or fall off.
 
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#30
I have a customer who kept a dab of Vaseline under the fingerboard right at the end of the neck. He’s a jazz player and claimed it kept his calluses moisturized and prevented blisters. After about the third time regluing the fingerboard at the heel I figured it out. When he brought it in with the board completely off, I spent a few hours heating it over the hot plate, watching all that oil boil to the surface. I then gave it a good wipe down with alcohol, let it dry and then heated it up again before gluing. It’s now been on for about three years and he keeps his Vaseline jar on the amp.

It is essential to prepare the neck and fingerboard before using fresh hide glue, and clamping properly.
 
#32
Bass guitar strings are different in construction. BG strings use a solid steel core which are hardly is use by any DB player now.
Also BG strings are rather touched whereas a lot of DB players pluck much more sideways to get a strong sound.

You don’t want a straight board unless you only touch the strings or want a really high action of the strings.

I got a Stagg EUB with a straight rosewood fingerboard. Almost all notes on the neck rattled when I played. I made a small relief (1 mm) to check if I wanted more or not. It was better, but I didn’t found the time yet to make it larger. At least the lower strings would need it.
 
#33
Ok this is very helpful! Thanks! From all of the videos i could find on youtube, this is exactly the string+fingerboard sound i'm after (kind of a fretless sound but coupled to the body of the DB). So it does sound like a very small to no relief at least on the G string should do the trick and then it can be increased a bit to avoid rattling towards the E string.

And i'm using metal core strings, i like the brighter sound better than the other strings i found, plus they are also much cheaper.
 
#35
Just to keep you updated, i just got my DB back yesterday from the luthier and he set it up exactly like DoubleMIDI suggested and it sounds exactly like i wanted and is VERY easy to play! So thank you guys for your help, i've been looking for that sound for quite a while :) Now it's time to practice!
 
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#37
The concept of scooping the fingerboard always has me wondering: why don't we use truss rods on DBs these days? Is it because of the huge amount of fingerboard overhang? Is it because the neck is just too darn thick, and a thin (like bass guitar thin) would make it impossible to use good technique? It's almost trivial to do a setup on bass guitars for different strings and action, but man, it's a whole freaking project on upright!
 
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#40
bassically_eli said:
The concept of scooping the fingerboard always has me wondering: why don't we use truss rods on DBs these days? Is it because of the huge amount of fingerboard overhang? Is it because the neck is just too darn thick, and a thin (like bass guitar thin) would make it impossible to use good technique? It's almost trivial to do a setup on bass guitars for different strings and action, but man, it's a whole freaking project on upright!
Click to expand...
Because we don't want a big rod of steel in our wooden bass?
 
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