Demeter 1200 watt Bass Amplifier /Need Bass community input on design

[JKdemeter]

At NAMM 2018 we showed a pro to type of a 1200 watt Bass amplifier. It was based on our Bass 800 pre-amp board and the new ICE 1200 watt power Amplifier module. It sounded wonderful, but before we start production I thought we should get input from the Bass community as to how we should package it and what features are wanted. The prototype was build in an amp head style similar the the VTBP-M-800D and the Bass 800D only a bit bigger. That head box does add about $100 to the retail cost, would a simple metal box with a handle be better? The proto-type also had our stock Bass 800 Tube passive front end, treble, middle, Bass/ with EQ switch, and presence as well as a Bass boost and bright, Dark, and normal mode switch also active/ Passive inputs, Loop and studio out on the back, would adding parametric EQ and or Optical compression be a good idea or should we keep it simple? Is 1200 watts too much? What other features would be wanted. Please let me know, Thanks to all. Attached is a preliminary Data sheet and Photo of the Prototype.

 

[J.Wolf]

hey James! That is really exciting, the new 1200 is BOSS sounding. Such an amazing power section. That is a fantastic platform to build off of.

My .02c? I have always wanted a desktop/lunchbox form factor head from you guys with the HBP-1 front end. That preamp is one of my favorites of all time, and as much as I dig the VTBP pre's, I just prefer the feature set on the HBP. So if it was an HBP1200 I'd be REAL excited.

As to whether its too much, I say absolutely not. Sure its a ton of power, but the headroom and tone is just fantastic. I use the 1200 with a 112 cab, for the tone, not the ultimate volume ceiling.

 

[bucephylus]

FWIW, here is a vid showing the prototype. Somehow, the TB NAMM thread missed this booth. How on earth could that happen?



Jim, that sounds like a great new product. I’ve got a 1.5 RS VTBP-201, a second 1.5 RS VTBP-201 with the Minnie 800D installed inside it, and a separate Minnie 800D. But, as great as those are, I’m always on the lookout for more power.

I’m sure I’m in the minority; but a 1.5 RS unit would be awesome. Also, I could be interested in a Minnie 1200D.

 

[JKdemeter]

hey James! That is really exciting, the new 1200 is BOSS sounding. Such an amazing power section. That is a fantastic platform to build off of.

My .02c? I have always wanted a desktop/lunchbox form factor head from you guys with the HBP-1 front end. That preamp is one of my favorites of all time, and as much as I dig the VTBP pre's, I just prefer the feature set on the HBP. So if it was an HBP1200 I'd be REAL excited.

As to whether its too much, I say absolutely not. Sure its a ton of power, but the headroom and tone is just fantastic. I use the 1200 with a 112 cab, for the tone, not the ultimate volume ceiling.

A lunch box style with the HBP features is a possibility. It may need a fan. One of the nice features with the head was I could put a large heat sink on the top. Would a fan bother you? I could put it on a switch for studio work.

 

[basscooker]

As an accessory it would be neato if somebody would offer up mounting brackets (with corresponding threaded holes on the amp chassis) like Genz Benz used on the shuttle series...

 

[J.Wolf]

A lunch box style with the HBP features is a possibility. It may need a fan. One of the nice features with the head was I could put a large heat sink on the top. Would a fan bother you? I could put it on a switch for studio work.

I dont mind a fan if its not like a jet engine. I had an Aguilar DB750 that sounded GREAT but I couldnt use it in the studio or on quiet gigs, even though it sounded OK at low volumes because the fan was a killer.

Dude, HBP lunchbox with the 1200w module is sounding REAL good right about now. My HB600 is just awesome but I sure wouldnt mind getting that feature set in a light weight lunchbox format.

 

[hennessybass]

Thanks for asking @JKdemeter
I like the lunchbox format you've got. It looks great, and has a cool old school vibe, yet still a good size for today's modern player.
I don't think 1200w is too much. Just about right if you ask me.
I say PLEASE keep it simple. There is just something so beautiful about a simple amp that looks good, sounds good, and can handle any gig. Guys today use pedals anyway - so let them pick their compressors, Para-EQs, and other flavors that they want.

I think a lot of players today, studio and stage, want a great DI built in. I know for a lot of guys, a separate control is pretty important. Guys want to make stage adjustments without having to worry about the house.

I have had my eye on your amps for a long time, and this has really re-excited me.

 

[Pbassmanca]

At NAMM 2018 we showed a pro to type of a 1200 watt Bass amplifier. It was based on our Bass 800 pre-amp board and the new ICE 1200 watt power Amplifier module. It sounded wonderful, but before we start production I thought we should get input from the Bass community as to how we should package it and what features are wanted. The prototype was build in an amp head style similar the the VTBP-M-800D and the Bass 800D only a bit bigger. That head box does add about $100 to the retail cost, would a simple metal box with a handle be better? The proto-type also had our stock Bass 800 Tube passive front end, treble, middle, Bass/ with EQ switch, and presence as well as a Bass boost and bright, Dark, and normal mode switch also active/ Passive inputs, Loop and studio out on the back, would adding parametric EQ and or Optical compression be a good idea or should we keep it simple? Is 1200 watts too much? What other features would be wanted. Please let me know, Thanks to all. Attached is a preliminary Data sheet and Photo of the Prototype.

Controllable high pass/low pass filters are a great feature. Simple metal box is a good idea. Low mid and high mid controls are nice as well as a bass control. An onboard compressor with ratio and threshold controls is also great. Might as well make it 2 ohm switchable while you're at it. 1200 watts is a beast but there's lots of cabs that can take it...

 

[J.Wolf]

MMMMM.. HBP1200 with the Tube Direct box as the DI. now we're talking.

 

[JW56789]

JKD, THANKS for asking, it's wonderful you're willing to wade in and ask your customers and potential customers what they think, knowing full well you're going to get a bagful of answers all over the map.

For myself . . . . . .

I could take or leave a parametric, as usually your EQ is pretty useful.

I also agree a first-class direct out is a must, period. I've always thought that a direct out by Federal law should be XLR with it's own output gain, transformer, and separate ground lift.

An included first-class optical compressor would be good for me. I've always admired the Universal LA610 or the 737 Avalon for that kind of thing. A 'chop-chop' limiter like you see on lesser products, skip that.

1200 watts is not too much for me as I'm a card-carrying member of the 'Big Amps Turned Up to 3' club. In a world full of 5-string or more basses, with low D's and C's common for a lot of us, the ability to fully form those low notes as fully and roundly as the rest of the fretboard is a luxury not all of us experience at all times, and the headroom this kind of power (obviously with the proper cabinets) would be tailor made for those scenarios. For me, it's not 1200 watts worth of loud, it's 1200 watts' headroom.

Now in the 'Gee, Santa' file, this amp with your new flip-top cabinet enlarged to a 15" format with a 6" and a cage version of this 1200 would sure-nuff be my-t-fine . . . . .

James, THANKS for asking, and hope it sells like crazy. All the Best !

 

[J.Wolf]

I also would not add a comp. I normally say don't bother with semi parametric mids but the fully parametric EQ section on the HBP is glorious. I also dont think it needs as full featured of a efx loop (could omit the level controls and in/out switch for example) as most people are using pedals inline.

I do like the idea of an adjustable HPF, but dont think its a dealbreaker. Most people are happy enough to use their Fdeck or whatever they use for HPF. I know Mesa had good luck with adding one to their D800+ but its not like anyone I know would buy this head if it had an HPF and not if it doesnt.

 

[hennessybass]

I also would not add a comp. I normally say don't bother with semi parametric mids but the fully parametric EQ section on the HBP is glorious. I also dont think it needs as full featured of a efx loop (could omit the level controls and in/out switch for example) as most people are using pedals inline.

I do like the idea of an adjustable HPF, but dont think its a dealbreaker. Most people are happy enough to use their Fdeck or whatever they use for HPF. I know Mesa had good luck with adding one to their D800+ but its not like anyone I know would buy this head if it had an HPF and not if it doesnt.

Agree about the FX loop. I just don't really think that people use them. It's all inline pedals these days.

 

[Raf Seibert]

I really like the looks and features of that plywood head style box in your PDF. It’s pretty sweet as is.

Raf

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Metal case, yes, fine, 1200 watts, yes absolutly, I'm using a 1000 watts now and consider it my minimum now. HPF, yes please. On to an onboard comp, yes please as I only use my pedal board half the time. Minimum of semi para mids are a must for me. Adjustable line out yes please, wood case optional is ok but I dont care for one or the ex cost. I love the sound of your products but not in a rack format. Small is good. I plan to NOT buy a rack size rig ever again.
And in parting, your level of comitmant and attention to real world players' wants and needs is what sets you above and apart from the majority of (MI) manufacturers. The fact you come to us with this level of respect to sincerely to listen, and even consider to implement some or all of the issues discussed here is testament to your commitment. I salute you sir! Good day.

 

[naetog]

A lunch box style with the HBP features is a possibility. It may need a fan. One of the nice features with the head was I could put a large heat sink on the top. Would a fan bother you? I could put it on a switch for studio work.

I also like the idea of an HBP feature set, especially with the fan switch.

Compression seems unnecessary as the majority of those that use it have the pedal/rack gear already.

I am happy to test drive any prototypes and can arrive in about a half hour...!

 

[bucephylus]

I’ve been mainly gigging ampless the past 14 months (continues to be a work in progress); but, I hauled my amps and cabs out a couple days ago; and the main thing that stood out to me is that the VTBP-201 preamp is still head and shoulders above the rest for being my favorite bass sound. Timeless. Right up there with the SVT for having that something special.

So, I found a used VTDB that I’m going to try to replace the Mesa Subway Preamp/DI I’ve been using for the ampless feed. The Subway is a very well designed unit, and has some EQ capability for the FOH feed. But, I massively prefer the VTBP-201 thing. Sure do wish I had the VTBP-201 tone stack in the VTDB format. Anyhow, just a thought.

Jim, regarding the 1200W power section, while it seems to be true that bass can never have too much power, I must admit that I never get close to maxing out what the 800W section delivers. My ONLY problem with the Class D output sections is that they tend to be a bit more noticeably sensitive to power sags. Probably not much to be done about that; but, from a player perspective, that’s the ONLY downside I’ve experienced. If the 1200W unit was a little more robust in that respect, that would be better.

 

[J.Wolf]

FWIW, I have played a handful of low to medium volume gigs with the 800w module and the 1200w module, and at the same low to moderate volume levels, the 1200 sounds way better to my ears. Fuller, rounder, smoother etc.... So to me its not about ultimate volume capacity as much as delivery and tone. But its nice to know the horsepower is there for that one off loud outdoor gig or whatever.

 

[bucephylus]

Yeah, if it sounds better at any volume, then, I’m in. “Better” must be amazing. My VTBP-201/800 is already the biz.

 

[J.Wolf]

Even though I love a handful of heads that utilize the 800w module (250ASX2) like the Minnie, Puma 900, and a few others, I find the older 1000W module and most certainly the new 1200w module to be greatly preferable, for my tastes. Of course, implementation is everything so its hard to compare them by themselves and not integrated into a head or standalone power amp.

 

[JKdemeter]

FWIW, here is a vid showing the prototype. Somehow, the TB NAMM thread missed this booth. How on earth could that happen?



Jim, that sounds like a great new product. I’ve got a 1.5 RS VTBP-201, a second 1.5 RS VTBP-201 with the Minnie 800D installed inside it, and a separate Minnie 800D. But, as great as those are, I’m always on the lookout for more power.

I’m sure I’m in the minority; but a 1.5 RS unit would be awesome. Also, I could be interested in a Minnie 1200D.

Every one complained about the 1.5 space e when we were making it. That was the rack era. That is why we made the 201s. A Minnie 1200 is a possibility

As an accessory it would be neato if somebody would offer up mounting brackets (with corresponding threaded holes on the amp chassis) like Genz Benz used on the shuttle series...

Yes rack ears would be a definite options if we do the metal lunch box versus the Head box.