Demeter 1200 watt Bass Amplifier /Need Bass community input on design

#64
I don't doubt James understands my meaning. My message was I always use HPF to shape my very low end and find the surgical approach to tone beats the heck out of a Bass knob. Having an F Deck onboard means one less thing to think about "hooking up". F Deck is the only pedal I use.
 
#66
J.Wolf said:
hey James! That is really exciting, the new 1200 is BOSS sounding. Such an amazing power section. That is a fantastic platform to build off of.

My .02c? I have always wanted a desktop/lunchbox form factor head from you guys with the HBP-1 front end. That preamp is one of my favorites of all time, and as much as I dig the VTBP pre's, I just prefer the feature set on the HBP. So if it was an HBP1200 I'd be REAL excited.

As to whether its too much, I say absolutely not. Sure its a ton of power, but the headroom and tone is just fantastic. I use the 1200 with a 112 cab, for the tone, not the ultimate volume ceiling.
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I'll second the suggestion to incorporate the HBP-1's front end/eq section. I've used an HBP-1 in live situations for better than a decade. It's parametric eq is absolutely wonderful, and is incredibly useful.
 
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#67
JKdemeter said:
Our stock amps come with a DI that is switchable Pre- or Post EQ. We offer the Jensen Transformer as an option for the ultimate in isolation. Our DI sound great and these Amps don't have to be connected to speaker so they can be used as a tube DI as well as an amp.
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I've longed for a Demeter pre, ever since years ago playing through a Demeter VTBP-201S, QCS power amp, and a Goliath II 410—very sweet rig.

Might I suggest a simple but useful feature: an EQ defeat button. I have often found it useful on my ART 259 tube channel, especially with an active bass or a piezo-equipped upright. A little further down the list would be compressor defeat, should a compressor be added. There are times when I just want it off, but when I need it, I just want to flick it on already set—like a pedal, but without the hassle of pedal boards and 9v power.
 
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#68
tombowlus said:
Duly noted, and I do have several amps with that 1,200w module, so I am familiar with it (and like it!). The various heads with the 250 module do tend to vary a bit in terms of both real-world and on the bench performance, but for my personal needs, the VTBP-M-800D has always been plenty round, plenty full, plenty rich and plenty smooth, in addition to being plenty loud. YMMV, of course.
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What other amps have this module?

@JKdemeter, I'm in the market for a stand-alone power amp, so if a Minnie 1200 comes about I may have to get one.
 
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#69
beans-on-toast said:
A 1200W amp will sell. Please accept these comments related to the design based on my personal preferences.

  • I don't like the knobs. All black would look classier.
  • You use black screws to mount the screen and corners, why chrome for the badge mounting screws. The handle is fine with the hardware used.
  • The badge is huge. It looks like it is blocking airflow. A better solution is needed, like that used on some of your other products.
  • Then there's another large logo on the chassis, make this one smaller. It looks busy
  • The model name, Bass 1200D is good.
  • The line "Tube pre-amp/1200 watt Amp" is not necessary. Perhaps locate it on the back panel. The capitalization is inconsistent, why only "Tube" and "Amp". Watt should always be capatilized. If you want to highlight a preliminary amplifier, be consistent and use the term 1200W power amplifier. It looks more like it was there for the NAMM show.
  • The power lamp would be better if it were located below or just to the right of the toggle switch. It looks isolated where it is.
  • Is bass freq a high pass filter? If yes don't label it bass boost, call it HPF. Bass players know what that means.
  • "Deep boost" can be simply "deep".
  • Is the active input a special circuit or simply a pad. If it's a pad, label it as -15dB or whatever it is, but don't call it active.

I appreciate that this is a prototype and packaging is full of tradeoffs but attention to detail is important at all stages of the design. :)

View attachment 3006211
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The amp was put together a week before NAMM so it has quite a few things that would not show up on the production model:
I don't like the knobs either. We had them in stock
We will screen the name on the production model so it would not effect air flow and no screws would be used.
I designed the screen at midnight just before the show, so there are type inconsistencies.
The tube is Back lighted the and it indicates when it is on, the LED shows if the amp is muted.
The Bass boost is a boost as it changes the gain of the Pre-amp at low frequencies.
Bass players asked me for the active or Pass label, I would call it a pad too.
I enjoyed comments when we get close to production I will send you a photo to see what you think. Thanks
 
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#71
CaptainWally said:
Is there some reason not to have a mute switch?
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Demeter amps have not historically had a mute switch. I suppose some of that goes back to the original design being a rack mount preamp; where other features, such as mute and tuner out happened in other parts of the rack.

With Demeter amps, you get world class tone and that’s pretty much it. Brass knuckles with no glove over the top.

[edit: I stand corrected; though none of mine, VTBP-201 & Bass 400, have a mute. ]
 
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#73
J.Wolf said:
I also would not add a comp. I normally say don't bother with semi parametric mids but the fully parametric EQ section on the HBP is glorious. I also dont think it needs as full featured of a efx loop (could omit the level controls and in/out switch for example) as most people are using pedals inline.

I do like the idea of an adjustable HPF, but dont think its a dealbreaker. Most people are happy enough to use their Fdeck or whatever they use for HPF. I know Mesa had good luck with adding one to their D800+ but its not like anyone I know would buy this head if it had an HPF and not if it doesnt.
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Haven't read the whole thread but I thought I'd chime in. I think a HPF is a necessity. The outboard ones are cool, but I think that they compromise the sound (squash it a bit). If I'm using a $2k amp I don't want to use a HPF that might degrade the sound. This is not a criticism of the pedal HPF's out there---they do what they're supposed to do and do it well. It's juwst the nature of running your signal through a little 9 volt box. While adjustable is cool--I really think that na fixed 30hz HPF gets the nasty stuff out of there. A guy brought over a little class D amp from a known manufacturer who just broke with his previous company and started a new one. We were checking out heads.With one head (that did have a built in 30hz hpf) even on the B string the cone moved but was not aimlessly flopping around. With this new amp even on the A string the cone was bouncing around like no crazy. The B string was ill-defined. I plugged in a high quality studio eq with an adjustable hpf. Set it at 30. The cone was controlled and the B was focused.

To me---it would be foolish and short sighted to not include one. The gunk I'm talking about is subsonic info below 30hz. It eats up all of your power and dynamic range. Even on a 4 string.
 
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#74
I figured "adding an HPF" meant adding a variable HPF with a knob on the front panel as a feature, ala the D800+. Hadnt considered the possibility that they meant adding a built in HPF as many quality amps are doing, to optimize the performance of the power section and keep things under control. That seems like a no brainer.

I'd be curious to see a list of what amps have signal going through them below 30hz and which ones have built in HPF's, whether advertised or not.
 
#75
Thanks for asking:
Fidelity at all costs; if any suggestions compromise don't incorporate

* Metal case or rackmount capability
* 800 Watts is fine as is a 4 Ohm minimum impedence
* HPF would be welcome; if it is fixed please don't set it too high like some companies; 30 Hz sounds right
* Mute switch that is only a switch and not a "pull to mute" type
* A compressor but only if it is high quality, adjustable ratio, and at least a 4 segment LED display
* DI with pre/post; Please keep the Jensen transformer option
* No parametric needed; having a selectable mid pre-set frequency (ala Ampeg) would be most welcome
* Power light closer to the switch would be nice but certainly not a must
* If you think the EQ defeat would offer a significantly different tone, it might be worth a consideration

Many years ago I used a Demeter on a session at the Power Station produced by Rob Fraboni and it sounded incredible!
 
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#76
JKdemeter said:
What frequency range would you like? 12 or 24 dB per octave?
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* Fixed at 35hz. Adjustable 20hz-220hz. 24 dB per octave with phase switch

Also:
* LPF, adjustable 20khz-300hz
* Metal and Tolex cases, optional
* 800 Watts, 2 ohm capable
* Mute switch with light indicator
* DI with pre/post, level/ground lift;
* Keep the Jensen transformer option
* Sweepable mids: low, mid, high
* Power light closer to the switch
* Whisper Fan - thermo controlled with off switch.
* Headphone with volume control and speaker on/off switch. With this, any gig with a super tight stage & small cab, the bass player can keep the speaker on and use headphones like an iem.
* Deeper is better than wider; To fit on top of narrower cabs.
* No effects loop, tuner out or compressor necessary
* Impedance switch for db pickups.
 
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#78
Stumbo said:
* Fixed at 35hz. Adjustable 35hz-220hz. 24 dB per octave with phase shift...
Click to expand...

Hi, Stumbo. To clarify, for the 24 dB/octave fixed + adjustable HPF, do you mean to suggest two 12 dB/octave filters, a la the fDeck HPF3 (which end up being 24 dB/octave below 35 Hz, 12 dB/octave in the user-adjustable part of the range)?

Also, can you elaborate on what you mean by "...with phase shift" in this case? I've got two different inklings, but am not sure that either is right.

For what it's worth, I'd like to be able to dial the HPF down to 28 or 30 Hz. I agree that one should be in place and, if it's going to be set low, then having it be fairly steep seems to make sense.
 
#79
MarkA said:
Hi, Stumbo. To clarify, for the 24 dB/octave fixed + adjustable HPF, do you mean to suggest two 12 dB/octave filters, a la the fDeck HPF3 (which end up being 24 dB/octave below 35 Hz, 12 dB/octave in the user-adjustable part of the range)?

Also, can you elaborate on what you mean by "...with phase shift" in this case? I've got two different inklings, but am not sure that either is right.

For what it's worth, I'd like to be able to dial the HPF down to 28 or 30 Hz. I agree that one should be in place and, if it's going to be set low, then having it be fairly steep seems to make sense.
Click to expand...
Phase "switch" instead of phase shift.
 
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