Double Bass Discover double bass lessons -global thread

[Bisounourse]

Ah the world is so small !
Hello Belgium.

Hoe gaat het met jij, beste flemish vriend ?

ça va, on ne peut pas se plaindre, mais je n'ai marre de l'isolement.
It's ok, we can't complain, but I'm fed up with the isolation.

I didn't see this teacher from a long time and as I know, last news about him he was into a depression
Online lessons will never be the perfect subsiture for a real teacher, but better than " no teacher at all" or an inapropriate or wrong casting student / teacher.

You have a point; better lessons online than no lessons. However, I do feel you can learn something from everyone, especially if it is someone who is versed in a totally different field than yours; it makes you think about things in a different way, which, to me, is always a big plus.

Take care, how about the lock down in Belgium. You stay home or you must work ?
Nog een fijne dag / have a nice day.

I still have to work, but I'm fortunate enough to be able to work from home.
Pareillement, bonne journée à vous aussi/Have a nice day as well.

 

[Mister Cbass]

ça va, on ne peut pas se plaindre, mais je n'ai marre de l'isolement.
It's ok, we can't complain, but I'm fed up with the isolation.


You have a point; better lessons online than no lessons. However, I do feel you can learn something from everyone, especially if it is someone who is versed in a totally different field than yours; it makes you think about things in a different way, which, to me, is always a big plus.

I still have to work, but I'm fortunate enough to be able to work from home.
Pareillement, bonne journée à vous aussi/Have a nice day as well.

Yes I understand, I must work too, not from home. I'm in the processed food industry....
I was in Belgium in the end of march, just before the lockdown, I love to come back to the country 1 time per year if I could.
The belgian spirit is so pleasant, welcoming country ! ( And I'm craving for belgian beers and our French fries) .

Ah ah I must create a topic Belgian Double bass players /for those who wanna learn Flemish ( or French) in a funiest way

 

[brianrost]

So, as I thought, it's possible to learn DB in an another way than the " classic " method ! Cool !

That's true but I have nowhere near the facility on the instrument as I would have if I had studied in the normal classical tradition. I started pretty late in life (27) and didn't have a decade to devote to a serious classical study regimen. Good enough for the styles of music that I play but that's all. I consider myself barely competent at best, people don't hire me for my chops thank goodness.

Jeff Berlin once remarked that noone has really come up with a way to learn that's any faster or shorter than the classical methods. It's worked for a few hundred years, after all.

 

[The Biz]

The thing is for self-taught players in niche genres (mainly rockabilly or bluegrass), we are very self-conscious about our playing, even when we have played for many years.

Chances are we are actually specialists who are quite good at our chosen genres, but are generally speaking terrible players. We get work because we know certain things really well (and are cool cats that everyone wants to hang with)

Lessons are intimidating, a humbling “reality check” and seem contrary to our goals (I don’t need to learn the bow, reading music is useless to me, I want to learn songs not etudes…), so we avoid them.


BUT…once we are willing to accept that we do not actually know what we need to do to reach our goals, and trust a teacher to get us there, we can make huge strides. Just do the work and hold yourself accountable.

 

[damonsmith]

I started double bass at 22. Classical is the best for late starters, there is no question you will learn to play well if you follow instructions - it is the short cut. It gives you a fighting chance.
If you do basic classical studies any of the music you are really drawn to will be right there under your fingers. I am NOT saying classical music means you "can play anything" that is a common misconception, especially by classical players!! You still have to hear and be in the music you want to play.
It is just the fast track to getting the fingerboard down.

That's true but I have nowhere near the facility on the instrument as I would have if I had studied in the normal classical tradition. I started pretty late in life (27) and didn't have a decade to devote to a serious classical study regimen. Good enough for the styles of music that I play but that's all. I consider myself barely competent at best, people don't hire me for my chops thank goodness.

Jeff Berlin once remarked that noone has really come up with a way to learn that's any faster or shorter than the classical methods. It's worked for a few hundred years, after all.

 

[Les Fret]

By this logic, if I met a few "free jazz" players who could not play a regular melody in tune, I would be correct in broad brushing all free jazz players into the same boat by assumption

I have that feeling too with a lot of free jazz players!

 

[Les Fret]

Jeff Berlin once remarked that noone has really come up with a way to learn that's any faster or shorter than the classical methods. It's worked for a few hundred years, after all.

I agree to a certain extent. From a purely technical and reading point of view this is true. But it also depends on what musical direction you want to go or what style you want to play.

I have studied classical guitar at the Conservatory long time ago. That made me have a good technical and theoretical basis. But in the end bass and electric guitar interested me more than classical music. Since electric guitar requires a different technique and stylistical approach I am not sure if I would do the same again if I could do it all over. Maybe I could have better studied electric guitar and jazz at the conservatory instead of classical guitar. I have no regrets whatsoever cause it made to what I am now but sometimes I wonder how I would have sounded if I made another choice.

But I see classical as a very solid technical foundation for any instrument but not as a better stylistical approach for the music that YOU want to play. So maybe it is better to have lessons in the style that you want you play eventually rather than having lessons in a different style first (?).

 

[damonsmith]

Wow, sorry. Bad analogy. The guitar already has frets. The classical methods (and not much else, truthfully) get you to the point of when you buy the guitar.
They build the tuning system (s) for the fingerboard. So, it is even about style at that point. If you don't have your own ideas about how you want to play music once you can play music, it is game over from the start.

I agree to a certain extent. From a purely technical and reading point of view this is true. But it also depends on what musical direction you want to go or what style you want to play.

I have studied classical guitar at the Conservatory long time ago. That made me have a good technical and theoretical basis. But in the end bass and electric guitar interested me more than classical music. Since electric guitar requires a different technique and stylistical approach I am not sure if I would do the same again if I could do it all over. Maybe I could have better studied electric guitar and jazz at the conservatory instead of classical guitar. I have no regrets whatsoever cause it made to what I am now but sometimes I wonder how I would have sounded if I made another choice.

But I see classical as a very solid technical foundation for any instrument but not as a better stylistical approach for the music that YOU want to play. So maybe it is better to have lessons in the style that you want you play eventually rather than having lessons in a different style first (?).

By this logic, if I met a few "free jazz" players who could not play a regular melody in tune, I would be correct in broad brushing all free jazz players into the same boat by assumption/association? I don't think that's how it works. Or at least not how it should!

Only the very best players never let you know whether they can play a regular melody in tune or not!

 

[Les Fret]

Wow, sorry. Bad analogy. The guitar already has frets. The classical methods (and not much else, truthfully) get you to the point of when you buy the guitar.
They build the tuning system (s) for the fingerboard. So, it is even about style at that point. If you don't have your own ideas about how you want to play music once you can play music, it is game over from the start.

I have no idea what you are trying to say with this? Everything I said was about learning the classical way versus non-classical as a reaction to the Jeff Berlin quote. Has nothing to do with the instrument or frets.

 

[damonsmith]

I am sure you have no idea what I am trying to say. I am trying to say that there isn't a another style of music that will even begin to teach to find the notes on the instrument in any systematic way. There is no reason to invent one, either.
Our instrument is missing a fundamental tuning system that has to be created by the player.
Classical methods don't even get you playing classical music, they get you in a position to learn classical music. So, once the the method has you in a good place, you play the music you want to play.

I have no idea what you are trying to say with this? Everything I said was about learning the classical way versus non-classical as a reaction to the Jeff Berlin quote. Has nothing to do with the instrument or frets.

 

[Mister Cbass]

that's interesting but off subject....

Classical or not, Jeff Berlin .... or Why not in opposition of pedagogy , Victor Wooten ( Jeff Berlin dissaproves the way of Victor Wooten want to teach music, and I said Music not bass).... I've found often Berlin quite " not open "
for me there is not " one " way, it depends
- the time you can or want allow to the music
- the goals
- the style

etc etc .... and as said Victor Wooten, traditional teachers, make traditional musicians. I've often think about that.
Berlin, Wooten, two approachs, two great musicians, not traditional... So here 2 choices possibles.

Why not in double bass.
40 years old, I don't hope to mastering the instrument, It will take 2 or 3 decades ..... I will be die before that
I'm not interested by the classic... So ...that's why my teacher bored me.

Maybe If I was younger; A classical cursus would be cool, but I doubt.

As Les Fret, I've studied classical guitar maybe 4 years. And I hate that ..... lol ...
Something was missing, and I think it was the " creative " side of the music.
In classical music, I've perform musical piece , They never ask me to " create " something, improvise something ....etc
During my short time in the classic music world, I met other musicians, great musicians, who play piano, guitar etc for more than a decade.... great perfomer...
But they 've never play in a band, only in orchestral formations, never try to write a song... not able to improvise a simple melody, I've found that sad.

In classical studies, I had the feeling that I will always learn and play music already existing and I will never the possibility to play, try create mine. That's was frustrating for me....

I am sure you have no idea what I am trying to say. I am trying to say that there isn't a another style of music that will even begin to teach to find the notes on the instrument in any systematic way. There is no reason to invent one, either.
Our instrument is missing a fundamental tuning system that has to be created by the player.
Classical methods don't even get you playing classical music, they get you in a position to learn classical music. So, once the the method has you in a good place, you play the music you want to play.

To be honest, I don't know if it's sometime It's quite difficult to me to translate the " global " idea of what you said from English to French ...

Quite arrogant attitude in this sentence, Mister I-know-All / I-right-about-everything and the other don't understand or are always wrong.

You preach the "one word"

 

[damonsmith]

Why not in double bass.

Because it is not related to bass guitar. You need a tuning system - that can take four decades with your suggestions just to be average, or a couple years with classical methods.
As I've said, the classical methods have very little to do with classical music or any music. It is step one to playing the music you want to play.
You are looking for a short cut, but, this is the short cut - that is why it is recommended for whatever music you want to play.

 

[Les Fret]

As Les Fret, I've studied classical guitar maybe 4 years. And I hate that ..... lol ...
Something was missing, and I think it was the " creative " side of the music.
In classical music, I've perform musical piece , They never ask me to " create " something, improvise something ....etc
During my short time in the classic music world, I met other musicians, great musicians, who play piano, guitar etc for more than a decade.... great perfomer...
But they 've never play in a band, only in orchestral formations, never try to write a song... not able to improvise a simple melody, I've found that sad.

In classical studies, I had the feeling that I will always learn and play music already existing and I will never the possibility to play, try create mine. That's was frustrating for me....

I agree with everything you see in whole the post.
I always felt Victor Wooten has a very inspirational and positive vibe in his clinics and his teaching whereas with Jeff Berlin I feel he is always judging and has a more 'negative' more pedantic vibe.

I also feel the same about classical music. I love the music but like you I missed the creative aspect of it. That for me is the most important aspect of music. Sure can have your own interpretation of a piece but your still playing someone else's notes. It's more about the notes and the technique and less about creating yourself. That's why I always played other music besides it. I still like classical for study and listening though but not for performing. This discussion applies to all instruments also double bass. I also studied classical double bass by the way so I can see it from both perspectives. Choose whichever you have the most feeling with. I am suspicious of people who say there is only one way to learn something. Especially if they believe their way is the only right way. There are more ways to Rome.

 

[The Biz]

When they first teach people how to code, does it matter if the student is planning to make guided missles or the next Candy Crush?

 

[Don Kasper]

When they first teach people how to code, does it matter if the student is planning to make guided missles or the next Candy Crush?

Yes, because one is capable of destroying all intelligent human life, (as we know it), and the other is a sophisticated and expensive piece of Military Ordnance!

 

[Tom Lane]

When they first teach people how to code, does it matter if the student is planning to make guided missles or the next Candy Crush?

I'd say "yes" because what they intend to do with the skill will influence which languages, environments, technologies, and concepts they learn. A robot programmer won't be learning COBOL or FORTRAN but a programmer intending to code for an insurance might be wise to learn both.

 

[The Biz]

They don't ask beginning programmers what they will program because it doesn't matter yet.

 

[Tom Lane]

They don't ask beginning programmers what they will program because it doesn't matter yet.

True for Universities. False for vocational training.

 

[AGCurry]

Somehow, I agree with almost everybody.

The primary focus of most teachers is technique. If you want to learn technique - proper intonation, fingering positions, use of the bow, etc. - the tried-and-true classical methods can't be beat. Once you have attained competence technically, you are free to use your technique in any way or genre you wish.

What @The Biz wrote about self-taught players is spot on; I recognized myself in his words. I picked up the double bass 45 years ago so that my band could play a few bluegrass tunes authentically. As I found that I really liked it, my Fender bass collected dust as I started playing the DB on everything we did (a lot of Western swing). But I never had a lesson or any instruction. I could play those styles convincingly because I have a good musical mind, but I was technically limited... I could do what I did but I couldn't do much else.

When I reached my sixties, new opportunities came my way, and I have the time and money to (finally) take lessons. When I look back and consider how much better I might be if I'd had instruction earlier, I might cry for what could have been.

That said, my current teacher is versed in classical technique - not excellent but good enough - and plays in the pit band for the big outdoor summer theatre here in St. Louis; so, like me, he's focused on using his technical tools in order to get the job done. I'm happy because I can now play scales pretty much in tune, use the bow without embarrassing myself, and read better than before.

 

[damonsmith]

I am suspicious of people who say there is only one way to learn something. Especially if they believe their way is the only right way. There are more ways to Rome.

There are endless ways to learn the double bass. There is a ONE WAY to learn the fingerboard that only takes a couple of years and is thorough and proven.
For me, I had music I wanted to play. Finding those other ways is going to take so much longer than getting the basics out of the way so you can work on the music you want to play.
Do you want to spend your time rebelling and making a new method or do you want to get on with it and play music?
You spend a few years on the nuts and bolts of getting the body to find the pitches on the bass then you can have a lifetime of playing music.
Or you can spend a lifetime struggling with basics.