Good point about guitar players.
Perhaps treble frequencies are easier to deal with FOH and bass freqs can be a nightmare?
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Do you use the POST option of your DI?
- Thread starter javi_bassist
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Good point about guitar players.
Perhaps treble frequencies are easier to deal with FOH and bass freqs can be a nightmare?
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
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Yep. If you pull out the highs at the tone control of your bass, everything 'down cable' will also have those highs removed. That includes to the amp, to the DI, and through any pedals you have. If your DI is a stand alone unit, whatever is in front of it (between the bass and the DI) will effect the tone it sends to the board. If your amp has a DI (and I assume the SVT7 does), and it's set "pre" (aka pre-EQ) then it's taking signal before the amp's EQ but anything you've done before the input of the amp is still affecting the tone it sends. If it's set "post" (aka post-EQ) then the amp EQ is also being sent by the DI.
If you 'color the stream' at the source, it colors it all the way to the far end of the chain.
Unless I can't talk to the sound guy. ..which is very rare in my cases. ... I always go POST I use the Super Bassman such has 2 channels-one with a sweet built in drive section. ..so that is definitely part of my sound. I tell em this and they're 99% of the time. ..cool with that.
Luckily in my cases. ... we're either using our regular sound engineer who knows me n my sound, or we're running FOH ourselves with our Dynacord/ JBL system - which I rarely run the bass thru. .. so in this case I can crank up my sound and control it all from my amp.
The 1 or 2 % of times when I either can't have a decent chat with an unknown sound engineer or they INSIST that I use either their DI or that It MUST go pre. .. I'm cool with it. ..might alter the set list to not use songs that use drive, but. ..they're rare occasions and as I said. ..I'll simply run with it.
But, yes, POST is definitelymy fave choice when the sound guy is ours or we're controlling things
Luckily in my cases. ... we're either using our regular sound engineer who knows me n my sound, or we're running FOH ourselves with our Dynacord/ JBL system - which I rarely run the bass thru. .. so in this case I can crank up my sound and control it all from my amp.
The 1 or 2 % of times when I either can't have a decent chat with an unknown sound engineer or they INSIST that I use either their DI or that It MUST go pre. .. I'm cool with it. ..might alter the set list to not use songs that use drive, but. ..they're rare occasions and as I said. ..I'll simply run with it.
But, yes, POST is definitelymy fave choice when the sound guy is ours or we're controlling things
In fact that is what many audio techs I have worked with prefer. The quality and sound of the DI's on bass amps varies widely (and many are noisy or sound awful) As a result audio techs often prefer a dedicated DI for bass.
Back in the day, several bands I played in used a BSS AR116 for bass and Countryman Type 85 for everything else. When I buy my next DI's I will probably go with with a Radial JDI and PZDI as that is about the most quality I can afford. The PZDI is pretty much a J48 with some added features such as switchable input impedance which allows it to handle active and passive basses as well as piezo pickups. If money were no object, for bass I would look at A-designs REDDI, Ecclair Evil Twin, or SonicFarm 2DI4.
OP...perhaps a better question than pre or post is amp DI or separate DI. The pre/post question comes back into play for the separate DI. IE is the DI driven by the instrument or the amp. On almost every gig I have done with provided sound, the audio tech's default choice was to provide a DI and a short patch cable. The expectation was for the bass to be plugged into the DI and the DI into the amp. If the provided DI was crappy, I would insist on using my own. In over 20 years of playing, my amp was mic'd only a handful of times.
For a period of time I used a stereo rack mixer to switch between string bass and bass guitar. The signal for this rig was taken directly from the right main out on the rack mixer (so essentially post). The reason I went post rather than using separate DIs for each instrument was so I could ensure the string bass was muted when it was not being played and because we were limited on channels. Using the right main out to drive my power amp and using the left main out as the DI gave me the freedom to adjust my stage volume without affecting the level sent to the mixing board. In general I tried to avoid making EQ changes during the show.
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Another possibly compelling factor is that a separate DI taken in front of the amp provides a fail-safe solution in the event of an amp failure, and immunity from a big transient spike to FOH if the amp loses and then regains AC power.
I can think of a couple of reasons. First off a guitars sound very shrill going g direct unless there is a fair amount of processing. Another reason is the bass guitar deals with some very powerful frequencies that used excessively can ruin a mix in no time
Well, the stakes are more or less lower with high frequencies, but a crappy guitar tone can also wreak havoc on a mix. And then the best you can do is pull a ton of mids/treble out to muddy it up and de-harshify it. Which won't make it good but might make it bearable.
But as a sound guy, I try to give musicians the benefit of the doubt that they can dial in something usable. If the initial stages of the soundcheck show otherwise, then I'll make some suggestions. After 2 or 3 rounds of that, if they don't follow my advice (guys, you DO understand I'm here to make you sound good, right?), then I say to hell with it and just try to do the best with what I have. So far, old british guitar players are the worst for listening. Like, dude, if I'm telling you to turn down IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO F'ING LOUD. I don't say that stuff because I hate guitar, I say it because I'm trying to get a good balanced mix out in the room that you can't hear on stage.
But as a sound guy, I try to give musicians the benefit of the doubt that they can dial in something usable. If the initial stages of the soundcheck show otherwise, then I'll make some suggestions. After 2 or 3 rounds of that, if they don't follow my advice (guys, you DO understand I'm here to make you sound good, right?), then I say to hell with it and just try to do the best with what I have. So far, old british guitar players are the worst for listening. Like, dude, if I'm telling you to turn down IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO F'ING LOUD. I don't say that stuff because I hate guitar, I say it because I'm trying to get a good balanced mix out in the room that you can't hear on stage.
I mixed a band once and the guitar was so loud that, not only was it not in the mix but it was bleeding so loudly into the lead vocal (his) mic that you couldn't hear his vocals. I went and told him the problem and he thought it was cool. The dude even hugged me after the gig for doing a great job. It sounded like s#!t to me ha ha
Usually if its our sound guy, he asks for post and sometimes he mics the cab too. but if it is not then they usually want pre and in that case i ask them mic the cab if it is mine or one i like the sound of. Rarely there are times when the sound guy wants the di sound directly off the bass itself which i tend not to agree to unless it’s my own DI box.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
No matter what you give FOH, they will mix what they think is best (which generally is more important than the stage tone in your head). I give pre, and try to talk with the sound person if I have something in mind.
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Geri O
Endorsing Artist, Mike Lull Guitars and Basses
Always pre, never post.
Because I know the feeling of mixing and jumping through my a$$ when a bassist turns around and cranks his lows to 100%.
I’m just not gonna do that to a sound guy.
Besides, to me, there’s no better bass sound than straight off of a small headphone amp into, well, headphones.
Because I know the feeling of mixing and jumping through my a$$ when a bassist turns around and cranks his lows to 100%.
I’m just not gonna do that to a sound guy.
Besides, to me, there’s no better bass sound than straight off of a small headphone amp into, well, headphones.
Why I disagree...
I think very hard about what tones work best with a band, I work at them, and any sound I use is very well-chosen. I do not use completely unworkable sounds, I do not play overly loud, and the sounds I use are always easy to correct for room nodes and things like that. And if the sound tech goes with me, the overall sound of the band is excellent. Likewise, if they don't, then the sound isn't as excellent. That's why I micro manage my sound, and I force my likes and dislikes on them through pedals, and yes, I will absolutely ask a sound tech to turn me down in the house if I'm too loud. If I don't, bad things happen.