"Does gear really matter"?

#41
JakobT said:
There is an old saying that I think still holds true: «A bad workman blames his tools». Good gear might make some things a little easier, bad gear might make some things a little more difficult. But good gear won’t turn a bad player into a good one, nor will bad gear hold a good player back that much.
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Tell that to the carpenter with a warped and dull saw blade. A minimal amount of quality and specialization is often required for tools to perform the intended task. Sure you can cut angles with a regular saw, but perhaps a mitre saw would give better results.

Good players usually prefer an instrument with a good setup and specif feel and tonal qualities. Give them a bad instrument that doesn't fret right or produces a distinctly different tone and they will do their best to work around the instrument's idiosyncrasies. But if the instrument is bad enough, it will degrade the player's performance...or at least degrade the player's enjoyment of the experience.
 
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#42
Gear absolutely matters. Without it, there would be no music.

The quality of the gear matters up to the point that you are happy with the experience of playing it and get the sounds you're after.

The threshold for those qualities varies with the individual.
 
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#43
BK bassist said:
The dreaded question ... especially for those of us that like to collect basses and other related gear.

I recently watched this Adam Neely video, I wanted to share it with the rest of the TB crew ... it's really quite good, just like all of Adam Neely's videos:



And last week I watched another video that really emphasized the point as Scott Devine did a blind A/B test of a $11,000 Fodera vs "The cheapest bass on Amazon" ... an $80 "Amoon" brand bass .... I'll admit, I got the answer wrong!



Not being able to / or having a very hard time telling the tonal difference between an $80 bass and a $11,000 Fodera is pretty sad and pretty eye opening ...

Makes you think ....
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Yes it matters! if you or others can't tell the difference between the two , yes its sad indeed! But it doesn't mean others wont or can't tell the difference !
 
#45
Regarding the SBL video comparing an Amoon to a Fodera: I find it hard to believe anyone cannot hear a difference between the two recordings. If you can hear no difference I suggest listening through different speakers or having your hearing checked. If you hear a difference, the instrument makes a difference.

I guessed correctly. The Fodera sound so much more clear or HiFi. I find most people in an expensive versus cheap comparison assume the more expensive will sound better. Better is a preference and those are very subjective. If you guessed incorrectly, maybe it is because you prefer the sound of a passive P bass over an active Fodera. The more informative comparison for you sound be a high end Fender P bass versus the Amoon.

Secondly, the point Adam's video glosses over is that instruments are tools and a good Craftsmen can make something nice with bad tools, but they could probably do better with better tools. Even that Squier he keeps mentioning, it has probably had some work done on it. At the very least dressing and leveling the frets, but maybe swapping electronics or something else.

The difference between a Fodera and the Amoon will come down to a wider array of sounds that come out of the instrument (you may still like the other better) and playability which you don't really understand until you experience it.

As an example, I have a G&L tribute ASAT telecaster, an Ibanez SA series, a Schecter Hellraiser, and a PRS Custom 24. All sound a little different, but playability (how easy it is to play) is vastly different between the instruments. The PRS is the most comfortable with the speed of the neck, carve of the neck, and the heel joint/cutaway. The Hellraiser is okay, but the neck paint and carve makes it just feel a little slower...otherwise it is great. The Ibanez is the closet in playability to the PRS in all ways, but the cutaway is not quite as good for high fret access. The G&L probably has the best feeling neck of all of them, but it is my least favorite to play because the body is so thick and the cutaway/heel joint is so clunky that it feels like it gets in the way. I can play everything I know how to play on any of them and it sounds pretty good, but I know how I feel.

The bottom line is, each instrument can achieve the same goal of making the music the player is capable of. As much as I hate analogies, if you are trying to drive from point A to point B on a paved road, you can select a lot of vehicles and get there, but there will be differences in comfort, speed, reliability, unwanted noise, acceleration, etc.

The point Adam's was really trying to make is: the most important thing is your ability as a musician. Even so gear does matter, at least a little.
 
#47
BK bassist said:
The dreaded question ... especially for those of us that like to collect basses and other related gear.

I recently watched this Adam Neely video, I wanted to share it with the rest of the TB crew ... it's really quite good, just like all of Adam Neely's videos:



And last week I watched another video that really emphasized the point as Scott Devine did a blind A/B test of a $11,000 Fodera vs "The cheapest bass on Amazon" ... an $80 "Amoon" brand bass .... I'll admit, I got the answer wrong!



Not being able to / or having a very hard time telling the tonal difference between an $80 bass and a $11,000 Fodera is pretty sad and pretty eye opening ...

Makes you think ....
Click to expand...



I didn't watch the Adam Neely video but for the SBL video was clearly obvious even without watching his "bass face".

I think that within reason, any competent player should be able to take a cheap/inexpensive instrument and sound good on it....but Ive found a more expensive/better made instrument opens up the avenues of self expression a great deal.
 
#48
JakobT said:
There is an old saying that I think still holds true: «A bad workman blames his tools». Good gear might make some things a little easier, bad gear might make some things a little more difficult. But good gear won’t turn a bad player into a good one, nor will bad gear hold a good player back that much.
Click to expand...

True. But when it comes down to getting the gig, when you show up with gear that is popularly perceived to be "good" (Fender P) it is to your advantage. Even the dimmest bulb understands the legitimacy that a Fender Precision Bass gives you. Mind you, I'm not endorsing the instrument, I'm just saying popular perceptions count, not just among music fans, but among the people who pay you to play.
 
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#49
The flip side is the player needs to be sufficiently practiced or he/she likely won't be able to appreciate what that high end gear might bring. It's not really a black and white answer. Then again past a certain level of craftsmanship there's a very flat curve of diminishing returns.
 
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#50
Wasnex said:
Tell that to the carpenter with a warped and dull saw blade. A minimal amount of quality and specialization is often required for tools to perform the intended task. Sure you can cut angles with a regular saw, but perhaps a mitre saw would give better results.

Good players usually prefer an instrument with a good setup and specif feel and tonal qualities. Give them a bad instrument that doesn't fret right or produces a distinctly different tone and they will do their best to work around the instrument's idiosyncrasies. But if the instrument is bad enough, it will degrade the player's performance...or at least degrade the player's enjoyment of the experience.
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All right, I’ll qualify my statement a little. Obviously, we’re not talking instruments that are so bad as to be unusable. But even very cheap entry-level instruments are good enough these days that they shouldn’t hold a player back significantly, as demonstrated in Scott Devine’s video. For that matter, there are also plenty of examples of musicians doing amazing things with very basic or even homemade instruments. And however amazing and wonderful instruments we possess, they will not make us great players in and of themselves. There is even a case to be made that limitations foster creativity, although that’s not my main point. What we like or prefer in the way of gear is another matter, but will it hinder a musician’s development significantly if he can only afford a Squier, and not the Fodera of his dreams? I, for one, don’t think so.
 
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#51
GIBrat51 said:
esa372 is right. Quality does matter; it generally insures an instrument that is easier to set up ; that stays that way; and probably won't break when you least want it to. But, you can get very, very good instruments without mortgaging your house - or selling a kidney. IMO, once you reach the point of getting everything out of it that good gear has to offer? Unless there's something that you need, and just can't get without spending a whole lot? More $$$'s can just carry you into the land of One-Upmanship, Vanity and Ego. Which is fine, if that's where you want to go...
Can you make decent music with "lesser" gear? Of course you can. But, it will take a lot more effort on your part, and you'll reach a point where... sorry, but that's as good as it's gonna get, unless you upgrade. And that point can come pretty quick...:whistle:
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What I've come to notice though about the "upgrade" is that it's very subjective. It's really just more like a change. A different frequency parameter, not anything that genuinely sounds "better." Or, a smoother feel, not anything that makes you play faster. Or a more low end, not anything that makes the notes be played "better" An upgrade is a downgrade is another mans ears. But, it certainly is something different by all means. Cheap gear is great for the reasons you bought it, and does exactly what it's made to do. Expensive gear just does that same thing differently. Not any "better" just differently. Although crap is crap anyway you polish it, crap still grows fruit and flowers.
 
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#52
Bunk McNulty said:
True. But when it comes down to getting the gig, when you show up with gear that is popularly perceived to be "good" (Fender P) it is to your advantage. Even the dimmest bulb understands the legitimacy that a Fender Precision Bass gives you. Mind you, I'm not endorsing the instrument, I'm just saying popular perceptions count, not just among music fans, but among the people who pay you to play.
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Definitely. There’s a lot of gear snobbery about, but I think the OP’s point was that such perceptions might have less to do with reality than we think, and that it might be a good idea to try to look beyond them.
 
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#53
Expensive gear or cheap gear, the bassist needs to have skills and the right fit for a band. As far as gear goes, you can pick up a used American Fender P or J bass for $800 on Reverb any day of the week. So, there is really no excuse for not showing up with a quality bass when an $800 bass will not be out of place on any stage from a 25 person bar audience to playing with the Foo Fighters. It's going to be dependable and work everywhere. Then you need a quality amp. Amps are where you really can't (shouldn't) cut corners. Get a solid two cab setup that will cover small to large gigs with a quality / reliable head, you can start with a single 8 ohm cab. You're in business. Add some pedals as the gig money comes in. Sure, you can do it with a $299 Squier, but why? A legit American Fender can be had for $800. And yes, part of it is looks. Open your gig bag, pull out a Fender and nobody, nobody will ever have a second thought. Other basses *could* get the stink eye. And you can say that those gigs didn't deserve you, screw 'em. But if you're trying out for a gig, you want the gig. You don't need a $12k Fodera, but you do need quality, reliable gear. Don't do as I did for a long time and scrimp on the amp and cab. They're probably more important than the bass unless you're in a situation where you can go direct.
 
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#54
A comment on the Adam Neely video nails it imo.
"A poor craftsman blames his tools...but it's still nice to have sharp tools."

The first goal is, of course, to be proficient on your instrument regardless of the quality of the gear. Fancy gear will not aid someone to become a better musician or performer. It's through experience that you uncover your voice on an instrument, and thus your preferences for feel/configuration. There is definitely something to be said for having an instrument which feels the way you think it should and responds to your touch the that you feel it should.
 
#59
BK bassist said:
So you hear a clear and absolutely distinctive difference in that Scott Devine video?
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I could, through studio monitors the first bass sounded good, but bass two I knew was the Fodera from the first few notes. It has a distinct tone. Bass One did a fine Fender tone, sounds good, but not like as Scott called it ‘the Bugatti’ of basses . A great player sounds great on anything that produces a tone
 
#60
At a certain price point you're just paying for a fancy sandwich layered bass.
I buy and play warwicks because the neck shape, fretboard radius and sound help me define my playing and sound that I can't get on a squire 5, Ibanez soundgear, elrick or modulus.
Does better quality gear make you a better player?
No, but I play better on my tight string spacing and baseball neck than I do a fender 4 string because it's what I'm used to.
 
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