Double Bass Endpin Battle Royal

#2
Couldn't be sure I could tell any real difference with the arco because you split the passage instead of repeating it (btw, sweet Swan!).

Eyes closed listen with pizz: first (steel) scale seemed considerably louder, more vibrant & fuller except that there was one portion of the second (wood) scale that bloomed and was broader. On looking later, that bloom was when you were on the A string with the wood. What you're calling warmth in the wood (except the A) was to me more like someone just turned down the treble control on an amp. The difference was less stark in the busy passage work. I'm surprised at this but actually I agree with your first impression, not your second.

So for my taste prefer EDG: steel, A: wood. Again, I'm very surprised.

Addendum: first listen was with just ok Sennheisers when I wrote comments. It's what I keep handy for binging on old 60's TV reruns in the wee hours because I don't care if I break them lying down. Realized I should have used my Grados which are much higher fidelity and kinder to acoustic instruments: 2nd listen, the wood didn't sound as dull now but still prefer the steel overall.

However, tomorrow...?
 
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#9
I cobbled these together with ready made legs from the hardware store.
You will have to pry off the swivel tip replacing it with a rubber tip.
They also come with an auger/lag bolt you have to remove and the enlarge the hole to take, in my case, a 10mm rod to fit my hybrid.

As you can see, I just painted them black, but they come in any wood you’d like as long as it’s white oak... I think types of wood would (hah) be a whole ‘nother rabbit hole as to their sound characteristics.

But it does give a sense of a wood endpin variable for less than $10 (for three!)

Can’t really say I preferred them, but I do put one on every now and then. Truth is , as much as anything, I miss the adjustability and retract ability of a steel pin.


9D093EAC-ED02-43E2-B771-0C451C34EE1B.jpeg
 
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#11
I used to have a wood pin from KC Strings that I really liked; it had a graphite shaft that fit the endpin assembly. Jed Kriegel told me that graphite doesn't handle crush forces well (from the tightening of the end pin screw) and that the shaft could eventually fail catastrophically. That never happened to me but I was always nervous about it and wished at the time I could get a similar pin made with a steel shaft.

Now I use a wooden Laborie-style pin from Quantum. I A/B tested it unscientifically with my teacher against a New Harmony adjustable Laborie pin and we agreed the wood pin sounded better. I still keep the New Harmony pin around, though - it was essential for figuring out the right length wood pin to get (and I still don't have the length quite right) - and it's nice to have in case I'm ever playing on an uneven surface.

One other thing, I'm a firm believer in using either a round ball or a spike on the "business end". Quantum has good round balls that don't slip. My reasoning is that nobody plays their bass straight up and down - so a stopper with a flat bottom is going to be meeting the the floor at an angle, which is not optimal. However, a round ball will have the same (and more or less) correct contact with the floor regardless of the angle the bass and endpin make when they reach the floor.

I haven't had to play much recently on slippery surfaces, so I can't say whether the Quantum rubber ball ends will hold on every kind of surface, but I haven't had my bass skid away from me since I've been using them.
 
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#12
I hadn't seen the steel-wood hybrid endpin before. I replaced the entire assembly a la Treager on my carved bass several years ago and it has worked well for me. I subjected a student to a different wood listening test last year.He told me he couldn't tell any difference between the various woods but I think he just wanted out of the room. Maybe I'll try it again with a more cooperative kid.l
 
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#13
Denisa Hanna here in LA is also making the steel/wood endpin. I can post a photo mine later - or give you her contact info.

For arco, after much experimentation, I've ebony and oak make the two "best" choices (for warmth, texture etc), but if I need to crank up the volume I use a titanium pin that Rob made. Very focused sound.
 
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#14
Your impressions match mine of your recordings. I agree that it is subtle to the point that we're going to be the only ones who notice enough to care, especially in a live situation, maybe the differences would be better appreciated in a studio environment.

I've done my own testing on this. I've been using wooden dowels for years now and they have definitely helped my bass. When I started I was very skeptical and really didn't want it to be true, because they aren't as strong as metal and they don't have notches to lock in, like your metal pin does. I will note that I'm using wooden dowels, which is different than what you have there, which appears to be a metal endpin inserted into a wooden endpin. I haven't tried that.

I have also tried different woods; maple, oak, mahogany...and they all sound different. I walked out once and when I came back, Jake was playing my bass, but had switched woods and I could hear it coming up the stairs. No doubt in my mind, but is the drummer who I play with going to notice? He might think that things are better or worse tonight than some other night, but the endpin would never make more difference than the room or the stage.

I also concluded that if I was really dialing in, I might opt for difference choices if I switched strings. Maple would brighten up darker strings and mahogany would mellow out new Spirocores a bit, but then it just becomes a question of how far you want to take things.

For me, I'm happier with wood than I am with metal, or at least the metal endpin that I have. I have no doubt that a different metal endpin assembly would produce a different sound too.

Thanks for doing this, I enjoyed hearing you play as well!
 
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#16
mjt0229 said:
I used to have a wood pin from KC Strings that I really liked; it had a graphite shaft that fit the endpin assembly. Jed Kriegel told me that graphite doesn't handle crush forces well (from the tightening of the end pin screw) and that the shaft could eventually fail catastrophically. That never happened to me but I was always nervous about it and wished at the time I could get a similar pin made with a steel shaft.

Now I use a wooden Laborie-style pin from Quantum. I A/B tested it unscientifically with my teacher against a New Harmony adjustable Laborie pin and we agreed the wood pin sounded better. I still keep the New Harmony pin around, though - it was essential for figuring out the right length wood pin to get (and I still don't have the length quite right) - and it's nice to have in case I'm ever playing on an uneven surface.

One other thing, I'm a firm believer in using either a round ball or a spike on the "business end". Quantum has good round balls that don't slip. My reasoning is that nobody plays their bass straight up and down - so a stopper with a flat bottom is going to be meeting the the floor at an angle, which is not optimal. However, a round ball will have the same (and more or less) correct contact with the floor regardless of the angle the bass and endpin make when they reach the floor.

I haven't had to play much recently on slippery surfaces, so I can't say whether the Quantum rubber ball ends will hold on every kind of surface, but I haven't had my bass skid away from me since I've been using them.
Click to expand...

At the last minute, I decided to not bring up Laborie-style endpins (that's a WHOLE other video), but I know that they're pretty common now. Didn't mean to leave anyone out!
 
#17
LouisF said:
Denisa Hanna here in LA is also making the steel/wood endpin. I can post a photo mine later - or give you her contact info.

For arco, after much experimentation, I've ebony and oak make the two "best" choices (for warmth, texture etc), but if I need to crank up the volume I use a titanium pin that Rob made. Very focused sound.
Click to expand...

After doing my research, there was a common sentiment among cellists that kind of applies to us, I think. "Metal when soloing, wood/carbon fiber when playing in a section". I tend to want the focus a little more than the warmth, TBH.
 
#18
TroyK said:
No doubt in my mind, but is the drummer who I play with going to notice? He might think that things are better or worse tonight than some other night, but the endpin would never make more difference than the room or the stage.
Click to expand...

This was the whole gist of the video, really. I wondered if it was a placebo. I the end, there were differences for sure, but in the trenches I'm not so sure it would be noticeable much. I have a (socially distanced) record date in a week--I might try both endpins and see what happens. Thank you for watching and for your input!!
 
#19
I got a titanium endpin with my bass when I bought it. I've tried several others made of different materials including wood and stainless steel, and always go back. It seems to me that lighter is better, no matter what it's made of.
 
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#20
pdbass said:
At the last minute, I decided to not bring up Laborie-style endpins (that's a WHOLE other video), but I know that they're pretty common now. Didn't mean to leave anyone out!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I only mention it because the one time I'd tried to do a sound comparison between metal and wood, both pins were Laborie style. I mentioned that we preferred the wood pin, but I didn't say, the difference was quite subtle, as others have described.

This wasn't to compare Laborie to non-Laborie - I've heard claims about their effect on sound, but for me the choice is about technique and ergonomics, which is entirely personal.
 
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