Experiences with vocal processors live?

#21
I use a mic mechanic. And so does one of my lead singer. We run all effects on it dry as we dont want different delay settings all about. We just use them for the pitch correction, and even that, very slightly. We just leave that knob at 12:00. Really helps on the oohs and ahh kind of backing vocs.
i use all the effects on it if im doing solo acoustic stuff, but thats just recreational playing. My voice as a lead singer isn't anything someone would pay to hear.
 
#22
walterw said:
like most soundguys i despise those things.

delay, verb and compression are best done at the mixer where they can be balanced to actually sound right in the mix and more importantly kept out of the monitors. i've had to mix more than one band where the lead singer insisted on one of these, so the other guys' backups were all loud and clear while the lead vocal was a distorted, murky mess.

the right way to use it is to send a dry and an effected signal out front so they can be mixed properly and so the dry signal can be sent back to the monitor.

the one time i did enjoy mixing a band that used them was because they were using the crap out of them, creating a deliberately "effected" and autotuned vocal sound that was halfway to a synthesizer. it perfectly fit the sort of "dream-pop" vibe the band was going for.

if you're just trying to get good-sounding "normal" vocals, there are better methods.
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I agree with Walter, but I love the mic mechanic. If you have to mix from the stage, the mic mechanic takes away some of the work. Let's face it, I can't and don't want to be riding the faders. The mic mechanic does a decent job compared to nothing at all. I was very tired one night and didn't hook it up to save time and the vocals suffered for it.

I think the compressor in the mic mechanic is more of a limiter. Really helps clamp down on a peaky singer without seeming to affect the majority of the vocals.

One con though: I gave the vocals a little autotune (first detent at 9:00) and it really helped thicken up the sound... until the vocalist started playing harmonica and it freaked out :eek:

I would *never* use it with a real sound guy though. He should have much more flexible effects.
 
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#23
I can't believe some of the negativity showing up in this thread. I use a Voicelive 3 for home practice and live all the time with IEMs or floor monitors

Used correctly (not all on all the time), a Voicelive 3 can sound great when coming back through the monitors for the lead singer. I find it much easier to sing when I can hear what FOH is hearing, including reverb and delay.

Pitch correction is adjustable, from obvious to subtle.

Does your hired-for-the-night sound guy know when you want a delay on a single line? Do they know when to switch on a megaphone effect, or chorus, or doubling?

These devices have a learning curve for sure, but once it's dialed in correctly, there isn't much to do besides applying the effects tastefully.

We're moving toward autonomous FOH, one less person to pay and no need to trust someone who "isn't part of the band".
 
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#24
Robb Fesig said:
We're moving toward autonomous FOH, one less person to pay and no need to trust someone who "isn't part of the band".
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You might want to think twice about this if it all possible. Mixing from the stage sucks... there is no nice way of saying it :atoz: You spend the first half of the first set just listening to volumes and not thinking about playing. Then the start of every set you have to listen for changes.

If there are feedback problems, and there will be sooner or later, you have to deal with them.

I really wish I was just the bass player. The rare gigs with a sound guy are heaven.
 
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#27
NickFromNY said:
I don't think it will work as an insert for multiple voices like that. Also, without a guitar signal to guide it, it has no reference of what to tune to or to build harmonies off of.
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Agreed.. the upper end TC VL series (2, 3) DO support setting up a harmony based on a song key, but that requires programming and tracking the key of each song. It's far easier for the average user to plug in a guitar and drive harmonies off it!
 
#28
I was always bugging my guitar player for a guitar signal output to feed my Vocalist Live pedal so it could track the chords for the harmony. Sometimes a line out or effects out from his amps, or a spare output from a pedal.

Then I discovered that it can eek enough guitar chord info from just sending it a feed from a spare output of the mixer. Even without the guitar running through the PA, there seems to be enough guitar (or keyboard) bleeding through the vocal mics for the harmony pedal to grab the chord changes. Makes set-up easier without imposing on other band members.
 
#29
The voice live play does not have an input for guitar. It does have an aux input so maybe you can get a return feed from the mixer.

Without that you are relying on roomsense. My guitarist/ vocalist uses the voice live gtx which is a very similar unit and works very well. It didn’t work well on just roomsense though. Some songs need the key set to sound right.

I got a harmony singer and use it for just a few harmonies on certain tunes and it works great. We run the guitar into it first and then into the gtx.

Some things we’ve learned:
You have to be very precise with your pitch for the harmonies to track well.

Too much will sound robotic.

It adds a whole other level of organization to your performance. If you have to set the key for one song you have to remember to reset it after the song.

I’ve read that a hypercardiod mic works better and that’s what the tc electronics mics are.

I also like as clean a vocal as possible in my IEM’s without reverb or other effects. I do like the harmonies however when I use them to know if they sound good or not. I think the reverb is pretty useless to have on the pedal. If you can turn a slapback on and off that would be useful.

OP: I’m pretty sure the gtx has the doubler capability. TC tends to release many different stripped down single pedals. You may be better served with the gtx or whatever version is the same but without all the guitar effects. Then again after three years of owning his my singer has yet to make a single user patch and is still going from 44 to 92 to turn on key of G to...
 
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#30
Our singer uses one and always forgets to turn it off between songs. We have played some big shows in Vegas where this has happened. A dry signal is sent to the monitors so on stage you hear little to no affect while speaking. When you watch or listen to recordings of the show, it is painfully obvious and synthetic.

A little goes a long way with these vocal boxes and when used correctly they can be an asset. You just need to be disciplined and make sure you turn it off when speaking.
 
#31
The voice live play will take a guitar or keyboard in through the aux in. I will try that this rehearsal. It has built in ambient mikes as well for key guessing. I will try the unit for the first time at this rehearsal. I have spent some time learning how to adjust everything. Now I can look at a patch and modify what I want to. For example I don't want the harmonies really loud. I did an aux out test with a mic mechanic over the last few weeks. I took an Aux out from my DL32r and used that as the mic in, then sent the mike out into an extra channel. I turned the mix all the way up on the device itself. Then I pushed the vocals through like any effects and brought the signal up to taste in the mixer. worked really nice.
 
#32
I use the TC Helicon harmony G sometimes when one of our backup singers can't make it. It works really well when given a keyboard input. I use it when I'm singing backup parts. I do find if you crank the input or harmony level much, it will feed back.
I like the fact it does not have compression on it. I don't find the doubling feature useful.

Our lead singer has a DigiTech vocalist live pedal which has more realistic sounding voices, but it tends to pick the wrong harmony notes despite being fed chords into it. It much prefers a guitar signal over keyboard in this respect, but it still wasnt giving me the notes I wanted to hear.

I keep meaning to do a shootout since I have both of them at home. What song snippets should pick as examples? Start with "fat bottomed girls" or "carry on my wayward son?". ;-)
 
#33
I've seen plenty of bands use vocal processors live, and never once have I ever had positive thoughts on them.

I actually auditioned for a band last week that used one. That was one of the reasons I'm not interested in joining up with them. Among other things, the singer used it for harmonies (even though they were a 5 piece band?), and it just sounded dreadful.

No thanks.
 
#34
I have a VoiceLive 3, and although I haven't gigged with it yet, I will be. I don't use the autotune or looper or harmony (except when I am playing around). Mostly I like the "baked-in" de-esser and pop filter, along with doubling (when I am singing backing vocals that are supposed to be several people, but it's just me) and maybe a little reverb (although we have other options for that). Although admittedly overkill for my needs, it seems to be doing what I wanted, and I think it sounds pretty natural.

I had a Mic Mechanic, and it worked great, but I wanted the doubling. I wasn't aware that the new Duplicator pedal also allowed octave up/down doubling. That is awesome. Frankly, that one pedal would probably do 90% of what I want/need.
 
#35
The sound guy in me has zero problem with these devices... As long as there are TWO feeds.. 1. Vocals 2. Harmony.
that way . "I" have control over the mix, and it's not left to a vocalist who can't hear FOH twisting a knob on stage !
:)
 
#37
Robb Fesig said:
You can do a wet/dry output with the Voicelive 3 and Voicelive 3 extreme.
The only problem is the effects will end up being pitch corrected, and the dry output won't be. (Confirmed with TC Helicon) :facepalm:
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That's actually a GOOD thing, so you can send the "dry" signal back to the vocalists monitor.
They should not hear the corrected version as it will make them sound worse because their reference point is off and they can't hear it.
It's like putting a compressor on their monitor mix.. ! :(
 
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#38
s0c9 said:
Agreed.. the upper end TC VL series (2, 3) DO support setting up a harmony based on a song key, but that requires programming and tracking the key of each song. It's far easier for the average user to plug in a guitar and drive harmonies off it!
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Unless you don't play guitar... :)

And yes, setting up the harmonies manually is a royal pita. BUT, once you've done it, it is WAY easier from then on. I have only done this once, for Boulevard of Broken Dreams. It involves different harmonies (5th up, 6th up, etc.) using multiple steps. So very complex, and yeah, it took an hour to figure out. And yes, it does take some footwork, but the result sounds pretty damn good, and is something that would be utterly unachievable using guitar-chord driven harmony...
 
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