Floating thumb causing overtones

[Nickweissmusic]

Hey all,

Been struggling with this issue since incorporating the floating thumb into my technique. Pretty much wherever im playing with my plucking hand, the back of the thumb is resting on the lower strings to mute it, and causing overtones to ring out. This is even more annoying to me than if the open strings were ringing as the higher notes cut through more. I havent found anyone online with talking about this issue, and my bass teacher doesnt use this technique. Has anyone here encountered this and has any advice?

Interesting, I’ve never had that problem and definitely use floating technique on all the stringed instruments I play. Are you absolutely positive it’s the muted string ringing out, and not another open string ringing out because of sympathetic vibration? BTW, I mute those open strings with an unused finger on my left hand. At any rate, It only takes a fraction of an inch to move away from a harmonic node, so experiment with moving your hand along the strings a little if it really is a harmonic.

 

[topaxi]

Interesting, I’ve never had that problem and definitely use floating technique on all the stringed instruments I play. Are you absolutely positive it’s the muted string ringing out, and not another open string ringing out because of sympathetic vibration? BTW, I mute those open strings with an unused finger on my left hand. At any rate, It only takes a fraction of an inch to move away from a harmonic node, so experiment with moving your hand along the strings a little if it really is a harmonic.

Yeah, it's definitely the muted strings. I've trying muting all the strings with my thumb and plucking them with the left hand, while moving it around to see if I can find any dead spots. None when I'm using the bridge pickup

 

[Nickweissmusic]

Eureka! You don't mute with the back of the thumb, you use the pad of the thumb to mute. There's not enough contact area on the back; it's all bony back there, without enough meat to dampen the strings but rather set off overtones my having a singular point of contact.

It should be like you are snapping your fingers.

I lay the “slapping edge” of my thumb across strings to mute, with no problem. It is at somewhat of an angle, which makes more skin contact with the string, not sure if that or the placement is why it’s so effective. But the back of the thumb could definitely work. I play a 5 string often, so muting 3 strings requires laying my thumb over the B E and A. I’ll make a video on it when I get the chance, busy time of year.

 

[Mili]

That's what I was initially doing, but that only works for the E string, or E/A strings if you wedge it between them. The D string is free to ring, which I why I swapped to what I do now.

This is the real floating thumb technique. I monitored myself last night and it was clean. I press my palm to the body also. for example when i mute E and A, there is no way to hit E and A accidentally by my left hand so there is only one way for ringing the muted E and A and it's natural vibration and it means you are plucking hard. Floating thumb should be done lightly because the whole advantages of this technique is controling dynamics and gaining much more speed while you are crossing the strings.

 

[topaxi]

This is the real floating thumb technique. I monitored myself last night and it was clean. I press my palm to the body also. for example when i mute E and A, there is no way to hit E and A accidentally by my left hand so there is only one way for ringing the muted E and A and it's natural vibration and it means you are plucking hard. Floating thumb should be done lightly because the whole advantages of this technique is controling dynamics and gaining much more speed while you are crossing the strings.
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Thanks for the pics! I feel like that is what I'm doing, but there may be some nuance to it that I'm missing. Here's a quick vid of me playing the excercise which made it noticable, hopefully it's good enough quality to see wgat's happening.

Spoiler: Video

 

[Mili]

Thanks for the pics! I feel like that is what I'm doing, but there may be some nuance to it that I'm missing. Here's a quick vid of me playing the excercise which made it noticable, hopefully it's good enough quality to see wgat's happening.

Spoiler: Video

Ok i think the problem is your posture, you are putting your forearm on the body and i can see your thumb doesn't have enough pressure and consistency.

 

[topaxi]

Ok i think the problem is your posture, you are putting your forearm on the body and i can see your thumb doesn't have enough pressure and consistency.

That might be it! I take my arm of the bass, naturally push a little more at the thumb to anchor myself better, it's definitely reduced the overtones. They're still there, but it probably is just that I have to practice it. I'll work on it for the next couple of days and update you guys! Thanks so much

 

[saabfender]

That's what I was initially doing, but that only works for the E string, or E/A strings if you wedge it between them. The D string is free to ring, which I why I swapped to what I do now.

I float across all basses, including my 5-string (which has fairly narrow string spacing) that way. I have always played a three-finger (with occasional plucked thumb), floating style.

Come to think of it, it's a very similar hand position I used when playing pedal steel. Boy, talk about an instrument where a lot of your effort is in muting non-played strings. Think keeping four strings quiet is hard? Try wrangling ten.

 

[Lobster11]

Ninja'd! Here's where mine goes:

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It looks like you are using the "moveable anchor," not the "floating thumb."

 

[Mushroo]

Yeah I definitely mute the strings above the one being played with my left hand, but the lower ones gotta be done with the right hand

Lots of players mute the unplayed lower strings with their left-hand fingers (and it sounds great). You can even use your left thumb over the neck to mute the E string, if necessary.

That's what I was initially doing, but that only works for the E string, or E/A strings if you wedge it between them. The D string is free to ring, which I why I swapped to what I do now.

I was taught that the right-hand thumb is not used to mute the D string. It is only used for the E string (when you are playing on the D or G string) or wedged between the E/A strings (when you are playing the G string).

The string one below the string I'm playing (the E string when I'm playing on A, or the A string when playing on D, or the D string when playing on G) I mute with the opposite plucking finger. So for example, if I'm plucking the G string with my 1st finger, my 2nd finger is resting on the D string and muting it. Then the 1st finger comes to rest on the D string, and I pluck the next note with my 2nd finger. As my plucking fingers alternate, they take turns muting the adjacent string.

 

[topaxi]

Lots of players mute the unplayed lower strings with their left-hand fingers (and it sounds great). You can even use your left thumb over the neck to mute the E string, if necessary.

From what I can tell, you don't want the thumb to wrap around the neck. For me, it definitely kills my agility with the fretting hand. But hey, if it works for you

I was taught that the right-hand thumb is not used to mute the D string. It is only used for the E string (when you are playing on the D or G string) or wedged between the E/A strings (when you are playing the G string).

The string one below the string I'm playing (the E string when I'm playing on A, or the A string when playing on D, or the D string when playing on G) I mute with the opposite plucking finger. So for example, if I'm plucking the G string with my 1st finger, my 2nd finger is resting on the D string and muting it. Then the 1st finger comes to rest on the D string, and I pluck the next note with my 2nd finger. As my plucking fingers alternate, they take turns muting the adjacent string.

I tried that, but I found when playing faster runs, the fingers had to move quickly enough that there were enough "gaps" between the muting fingers for it to be more like just hitting the string, causing it to ring as well.

 

[Mushroo]

Here's a pic of John Entwistle. The Who were a very loud band, so good muting technique was supremely important for the Ox. Check out how he's using all of his left hand fingers, plus his left-hand thumb, to mute the strings. Nobody ever accused Entwistle of "lacking dexterity" ! I'm not saying you "should" play like this, but it's good to know you have the option. Most of the top players have this tool in their toolbox, for when they need it.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I'm no floating thumb expert, but my thumb tends to be more so behind my index finger instead of beside it. But my bass must not be very resonant because even if i am not muting anything with my thumb i don't tend to get sympathetic vibrations, unless playing very loudly with an amp(feedback).

As far as muting devices, i utilize a few. Left hand tends to lay over strings under the one being played on. Thumb rest on string for right hand is another muting option, as well as just using my actual plucking finger tips/pads.

Edit: I think i am actually using moveable anchor...my bad.

 

[Lobster11]

Edit: I think i am actually using moveable anchor...my bad.

Haha! Yeah, they are two different -- but equally legit -- techniques, and I think some folks in this thread have been confusing them (as per my previous post).

Personally, I think of them as close relatives, and I use a kind of hybrid of the two. For example, if I'm playing a series of notes on the G string, I'll more or less anchor my thumb on the A or D string for that duration, but if I'm playing a line that involves a lot of string-crossing, I'll use the floating thumb.

 

[Russell L]

Actually, strike that bit about muting with my other fingers. I think the top 3 strings must be mostly left hand now that I've tried again (man, it's rally hard to play normally when you're thinking about it).

You said a lot in that last sentence. It's a common problem when folks listen to too much instruction and try to think too much. It's like learning to use the damper pedal on a piano. For me, somehow I just do it. If I purposely think about it, or try to tell someone else how to do it, I can hardly do it at all. The same with guitar and bass. It seems that some things just come to us. The more you play, the better it gets. I never "worked on " floating thumb technique. I just started doing it. The particulars of how seem to be involuntary in that I don't even notice.

Or maybe it's like the golf swing. Don't try to "MAKE it happen," but rather "LET it happen."

Or, how do you throw a rock? Hell, I dunno.

 

[topaxi]

You said a lot in that last sentence. It's a common problem when folks listen to too much instruction and try to think too much. It's like learning to use the damper pedal on a piano. For me, somehow I just do it. If I purposely think about it, or try to tell someone else how to do it, I can hardly do it at all. The same with guitar and bass. It seems that some things just come to us. The more you play, the better it gets. I never "worked on " floating thumb technique. I just started doing it. The particulars of how seem to be involuntary in that I don't even notice.

Or maybe it's like the golf swing. Don't try to "MAKE it happen," but rather "LET it happen."

I dunno.

I dunno, I feel like that's how a lot of people develop bad technique. I know on guitar I developed a bad picking habit by just letting it happen, and by the time I realised it was holding back my playing (ten odd years later), it was REALLY hard to change. It's important to cement these sorts of things early.

 

[Russell L]

Well, true dat. I know you're right actually. It's just that sometimes we can get carried away overthinking.

Heh, now I'm overthinking rethinking everything I just said, LOL.