Fretless Simulator?

#21
There are a few players like Jeff Berlin that sometimes sound like they're playing fretless when they're not.

You can emulate a little bit of the fretless pitch variation by bending the string to go sharp and rolling your fingertip back toward the fret behind the note to go flat. Meaning if you're fretting a G on the E string, roll your finger back toward the F# fret. It took me a while to be able to do it without killing the note right away.
 
#22
Eddie Booph said:
Just start with your bass out of tune, then you'll get my usual fretless sound!
Click to expand...
A pedal that does random pitch shifting (a bit different with each note) is something that certainly could be done. If you combine that with auto tune, it would sound a lot like a decent but not perfect bassist who plays a note, then slides a bit to get it in tune.

On a more serious note, it's probably easier to get something that'll simulate flats on a wood board fretless than it is to simulate rounds on a hard board (epoxy, ebonol, etc) - the glorious mwah that rounds get on a hard board is probably very difficult to emulate.
 
#24
With the Boss SY-1000 booted in bass mode, combined with a GK-3B divided pickup, you can access their Defretter Bass "instrument" model.

Unfortunately, the only bass I have a GK pickup on is already fretless. So if I demoed it, it would have negative one fret-- which I suppose I should try.

Given the price of an SY-1000 + GK3B pickup, this would be an absurdly expensive route to take-- but it's actually quite a marvelous and versatile device for bass & guitar. With the latest firmware, tracking is pretty good.
 
#25
I just spent a bit of time playing with the Fretless Simulator on a Zoom MS60B+ and it is pretty good, even better when you pair it with an appropriate amp, in this case the AC370 [Acoustic] adding a touch of compression, detune and Air for a very usable fretless sound with my fretted PJ bass. Certainly usable in a band mix for a song or two without the need for a bass change. I named the patch 'Jaco in the Box', he would be amused.
 
#27
oneforyes said:
Is there something can simulate a fretless sound on a fretted bass?
Click to expand...
Simulate? Probably. But maybe not a very good simulation. If you're trying to play one song, it would be interesting to know what song it is that has a fretless bass in it. There's a few things that are hallmarks of a fretless:
-The way the note blooms in tone and slightly in volume in a way that a fretted bass simply can't produce, naturally.
-The almost vocal approach possible coming into and leaving a note.
-Sliding up or down without hitting any frets.
-The slight variances in tuning and vibrato that can be applied to a note or notes.

All these thing in aggregate come together to produce a very unique and expressive sound and technique when you actually play a fretless bass. Any fretted simulation in my opinion as a player of an unlined fretless Jazz Bass for 30+ years, is really missing the boat in sound and approach. And I haven't even mentioned the way a fretless bass (when set up correctly) feels and resonates in a very rewarding way, that is also simply unable to be duplicated by a fretted bass.

I know money doesn't grow on trees, but my strong recommendation is simply to buy a decent, used fretless bass and make sure it's set up well. You will likely become a better player on any kind of bass if you spend enough time with the fretless. Your technique, ears, and I think musicality will greatly benefit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stubbsonic
#28
The best fretless simulator was found on the old AdrenaLinn III effects unit. But like all of these slow attack effect...they are limted and quite a poor representation of a fretless.
Getting a fretless is always preferable. However there is a retrofit bass bridge that allows a fretted bass to sound exactly like a fretless.
1732311600407.png
 
#30
GMC said:
The best fretless simulator was found on the old AdrenaLinn III effects unit. But like all of these slow attack effect...they are limted and quite a poor representation of a fretless.
Getting a fretless is always preferable. However there is a retrofit bass bridge that allows a fretted bass to sound exactly like a fretless.
View attachment 7083483
Click to expand...
I don’t know how you can get proper intonation with this. I watched the vid, but still…
 
#31
For the amount of money and time you'll need to spend on getting gear to try to approximate a fretless, and then still not have it sound like fretless, you might as well just get an inexpensive fretless and learn to play it.

Fretless isn't nearly as hard as people who never play fretless make it out to be. You have to slightly change some of your techniques, and you have to be slightly more diligent about some things you can take for granted on a fretted instrument. But really, not much more, especially if you're starting off with decent technique and are good at listening to what you're playing and what everyone else is playing, which you should be doing on fretted bass anyway.

Just get a fretless and play it regularly. It's really fun.

Besides, when you say "sound like a fretless," what does that even mean? There are so many things that go into what fretless sounds like, and so many different fretless sounds. Rounds on an epoxied fingerboard through a Jazz Bass Bridge pickup a la Jaco sounds incredibly different from Tony Franklin playing his PJ with Rounds & oil coated Ebony board, that sounds different from Pino's fretless Stingray, that sounds different from a fretless P with flats, that sounds different from my fretless with Tape-wounds on a maple board & Delano XTenders in various configurations.

And even if you can approximate the tone in your head that you want to emulate, you'll never get the sound of contiguous pitch between notes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stubbsonic and Jazzdogg
#33
An awful lot of folks here are completely missing the point of the original question posted to begin this thread. The question was about asking if anyone knew of some effects-based unit or method to simulate some of the sound of a fretless, NOT to completely replace a fretless simply because they don't want to learn how to play one. I don't think any (reasonable) person thinks there's some magic pedal that will turn a fretted bass into a completely realistic sounding fretless.

Personally I don't want the "mwah" sound on every song I'm playing, if I did then yeah I'd just play a fretless. There are songs that have some of that vibe that it would be nice to emulate without having to change basses (fretted to fretless), same as using dirt or reverb or an octaver etc to get a specific sound for a specific song, no difference. Telling folks to "just go buy a fretless" seems the easy, snotty way to dismiss the questioner as being some lazy or untalented wanker and is completely unhelpful. There have been some attempts by various effects makers at producing some sort of digital effect that emulates (not copies accurately) a fretless vibe and the question was addressed to anyone with experience with those. If you have some info/input in regards to some effect that you have actual hands-on experience with that would be helpful, your input would be appreciated. Otherwise save the "go buy a fretless" crap. That wasn't the question.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A Bass And Its Boy
#34
Spectre Gunner said:
Anyone ever try AutoTune to correct intonation on a fretless?
Click to expand...

I have, but it was an LV2 plugin and I’m not sure it tracked the bass signal very well so it didn’t sound like it was working—I felt like I could still manually detune the note. I was testing the extremes between notes, though, not just a few cents off pitch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spectre Gunner
#35
EdO. said:
An awful lot of folks here are completely missing the point of the original question posted to begin this thread. The question was about asking if anyone knew of some effects-based unit or method to simulate some of the sound of a fretless, NOT to completely replace a fretless simply because they don't want to learn how to play one. I don't think any (reasonable) person thinks there's some magic pedal that will turn a fretted bass into a completely realistic sounding fretless.
...
Telling folks to "just go buy a fretless" seems the easy, snotty way to dismiss the questioner as being some lazy or untalented wanker and is completely unhelpful. ...
Otherwise save the "go buy a fretless" crap. That wasn't the question.
Click to expand...
OFF-TOPIC: I agree that "Learn to play a real fretless" was off-topic, but why ascribe all the negative, ill-intent? I didn't read it that way.

OFF-TOPIC: Back in late 2020, I bought a $450 fretless after playing fretted bass for over 30 years. Though I was reluctant, as I assumed it would be a steep learning curve. On the contrary, I've had a positive experience and don't regret it. That's why I might be inclined to give someone a nudge if they were already leaning that way. I don't in any way denigrate anyone who plays fretted bass exclusively, as that's what I have done for most of my bass playing life. I rarely take my fretless out on gigs. A lot of the gigs I play require sight-reading, and I'm still at the level where I need to look at my LH pretty often.

OFF-TOPIC: The SY-1000 system I described would cost $1400, plus hours of effort to learn the rig. It was a way MORE impractical suggestion than buying and learning to play a fretless. I only mentioned it because the OP isn't going to be the only one who follows this thread.

ON-TOPIC: The fretless sim in the Zoom pedals I've used is sort of a filter effect. It's definitely not authentic, but combined with other stuff could be useful for a song or section of a song. Sometimes a sim, even a poor one, ends up having kind of a signature of its own (i.e., bad, but in a good way)and becomes useful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FullumMusic
#36
EdO. said:
Personally I don't want the "mwah" sound on every song I'm playing
Click to expand...
Except not every fretless bass is endless "mwah", depending on the bass and the strings and how it's played. I assure you my fretless bass rarely "mwahs" unless i deliberately make it. When i show up with my fretless, most of the time people don't realize it's a fretless unless they look at it, or until that one moment where i do a very "fretless sounding" thing. Which again, begs the question, "If you want a fretted bass to sound like a fretless, what fretless 'sound' are you (the OP) talking about?"

I think suggesting playing an actual fretless pretty on topic. (Obviously, because i suggested it) There was nothing snotty or presumptuous about it. It was simultaneously an answer to their question and an alternative solution offered: "Is there a piece of gear to make a fretted sound like a fretless?" No. Not really. For the same amount of money and time trying to approximate the real thing and still coming up short, you can just do the real thing.

Doesn't matter what subject matter. If someone asked if there's a short-cut way to do something, or a way to emulate something, and the short-cut/emulation is actually a more difficult, expensive, and time-consuming way to get worse results, i'd suggest just getting or doing the actual thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lowfreqgeek
#37
stubbsonic said:
OFF-TOPIC: I agree that "Learn to play a real fretless" was off-topic, but why ascribe all the negative, ill-intent? I didn't read it that way.

OFF-TOPIC: Back in late 2020, I bought a $450 fretless after playing fretted bass for over 30 years. Though I was reluctant, as I assumed it would be a steep learning curve. On the contrary, I've had a positive experience and don't regret it. That's why I might be inclined to give someone a nudge if they were already leaning that way. I don't in any way denigrate anyone who plays fretted bass exclusively, as that's what I have done for most of my bass playing life. I rarely take my fretless out on gigs. A lot of the gigs I play require sight-reading, and I'm still at the level where I need to look at my LH pretty often.

OFF-TOPIC: The SY-1000 system I described would cost $1400, plus hours of effort to learn the rig. It was a way MORE impractical suggestion than buying and learning to play a fretless. I only mentioned it because the OP isn't going to be the only one who follows this thread.

ON-TOPIC: The fretless sim in the Zoom pedals I've used is sort of a filter effect. It's definitely not authentic, but combined with other stuff could be useful for a song or section of a song. Sometimes a sim, even a poor one, ends up having kind of a signature of its own (i.e., bad, but in a good way)and becomes useful.
Click to expand...
Precisely what i was thinking when i suggested just getting a fretless. The emulation options are more expensive, time consuming, and difficult than just getting the real thing, and still won't really sound like a fretless. Seems like a valid response.

I feel like there's a lot of mystique and aura about playing fretless bass that exaggerates how difficult it is. A lot of people have only heard or imagined how difficult it must be, so they try to think of ways to circumvent its difficulty. Nobody ever told them it's not that hard. And it's really not as hard as people seem to think. And, it's really fun. Yes, it takes a modicum of more effort; it involves changing and learning a few new techniques; it involves really listening to play in tune(but you should be listening anyway).

But the learning curve isn't as big as a lot of people make and i think hearing that is important, especially if people are potentially going to spend money and time trying replicated it because they don't realize they can just do the real thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back