Guitar player... fired. We all saw it coming.

[tb-player]

In all fairness, the solo is over the chorus progression.

I just re-listened to the studio recording of this tune - first harmonica solo is over the verse i.e. no chord changes, then guitar solo over the chorus i.e. with changes - but if you're going to do an extended solo, you certainly could carry it out over the pedal point. I don't know what is the current real-world performance practice of cover bands for this tune.

I shouldn't have clarified... we are NOT a cover band. We're more of a jam band. We purposely don't play songs they way they're originally recorded. The solo and the vibe can be anything we want. The guitarist-in-question knows that.

 

[tb-player]

was that in front of the the dude and everybody?

All subsequent conversations were in private.

 

[DirtDog]

You may remember me telling the story of the guitar player who didn't like my groovy blue bass. A number of responses said I was being thin-skinned and needed to get over it. Others said I should give him a chance since he was the new guy, just trying to fit in. And there were a few folks who said that his true-colors would eventually get the best of him.

Well, that last one happened at last night's practice.

It started a couple of months ago when we were recording an original. He showed up at the recording studio stoned. His tempo was off and his guitar was out of tune. None of his tracks were usable. We had to have someone else overdub all his guitar parts.

But then we played out a few weeks ago and he nailed it. He did a really great job. So we assumed maybe he's just not a studio kind of guy.

Fast forward to last night. The band leader asked him if he wanted to sing a tune. So he suggested 'Gimme Shelter'. Not really our style, but we played it and it worked. However, at the solos, we weren't sure if we were hanging on the root or playing the chorus chords. So the entire band hung on the root, like we were playing the verse. This obviously wasn't what this guitar player wanted us to play. So he glared at our lead guitarist, as if to say "What are you doing??" (keep in mind, we've played this song once, so far). He then stopped the song and looked at the lead guitarist and said, "What are you doing? You've got to play the song!!"

We all looked around awkwardly. The lead guitarist was obviously angry at this outburst, but he bit his lip and we finished the tune.

After practice, I asked him (the lead guitarist) if he was ok. He was not. But he kept his cool. Then the band leader walked up and said, "That guy's out! He doesn't fit in and he's dragging us all down." No one argued with him.

Today, I called the band leader to check in, now that everyone's cooled down a bit. He doubled-down. Even though the guy can play, he doesn't fit in with the vibe of our band. Regarding the outburst, he said, "We don't do that!" Once again, I didn't argue with him. He's 100% right.

Just goes to show you that talent only goes so far. Good musicians needs to have the proper social game for a band to work. We all love good-natured ribbing & giving each other a hard time. But we never intentionally embarrass a member of the band... especially when they're doing nothing wrong.

I'm sure he's a nice enough guy... but we won't miss him.

musicianship, bandsmanship and showmanship; needs to be all three present - at a minimum - for me to consider playing with anyone these days....

This guy, as described, would not pass the bandsmanship requirement for me.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

ANOTHER one of those things not in the course syllabus at Berklee: It ain't just the playing.

It's in Ed's book...

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0879306157/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[BarfanyShart]

As bassists, our role in the band is lukewarm water.

 

[RichardW]

I've told folks my greatest asset as a band member is my personality, not my talent as a bass player (middling, at best).

 

[aprod]

If I was the guiatrist I would be glad to leave. You can't get through a basic song like "Gimme Shelter"? Why would you stay on one chord when its a 3 chord progression?

 

[micguy]

I'm doing all church gigs at this point. When you have a 6AM call time, and you can't drink on the job, the number of jerks you have to deal with plummets precipitously. I don't miss the $10 or $20 I used to net from a gig at all ;-)

 

[Johnny Fingers]

Jerks need Jesus too, hopefully they’ve surrendered their will to Him and “worship wierdness” does not become an issue.

 

[dkelley]

All of this could just be solved by him remembering that other people don't read minds, and communication BEFORE starting something, or, if confusion comes along, communication WHEN something happens, will solve the problem.

By the same token, for you guys playing the changes and guessing what to play there, if nobody knows what to do in the solo section, then stop, ask him, what do you want us to do in solo section cuz we're not sure here.

But since it was he who was unhappy there, if he's not hearing what he wants for changes during his solo, then he should stop the group, tell everyone what he'd like, demonstrate a bit, and then start that section over again.

Stopping during a rehearsal instead of playing it wrong is just basic professionalism.

Instead of glaring at you guys, he could have kept the song going and then said into the mic at that point, hey guys, could you do the changes from the chorus? or whatever he wanted there. Glaring solves nothing.

Unless you were in a gig at the time or something.... in which case, well, make the best of it.

But I mean getting angry about something someone did when the problem clearly was just a misunderstanding of what to do in that part of the song? That's ludicrous.

I hope you're happier without that tension he brought.

And the studio thing? That would have sent him out the door instantly from my schedule.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Those that are focusing on the rehearsal need to reread this,

He showed up at the recording studio stoned. His tempo was off and his guitar was out of tune. None of his tracks were usable. We had to have someone else overdub all his guitar parts.

The last rehearsal was the final negative move they could take from him.
He should have been gone the day he showed up at the studio stoned laying down unusable tracks.

If I was the guiatrist I would be glad to leave. You can't get through a basic song like "Gimme Shelter"? Why would you stay on one chord when its a 3 chord progression?

Until I looked it up just now, I have never heard "Gimme Shelter" by The Stones. Not everyone knows or plays what you do.
Reread this.

So he suggested 'Gimme Shelter'. Not really our style, but we played it and it worked.

(keep in mind, we've played this song once, so far).

Remember, Guitarist could not play in the studio where money was wasted. His poor communication skills this evening is when the thin ice he was standing on finally broke for the band leader.

 

[tb-player]

If I was the guiatrist I would be glad to leave. You can't get through a basic song like "Gimme Shelter"? Why would you stay on one chord when its a 3 chord progression?

Because the verse is one chord. The chorus is 3. We do a lot of solo sections that are verse then chorus. I should introduce you to our former guitarist. You guys would get along great.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

Because the verse is one chord. The chorus is 3. We do a lot of solo sections that are verse then chorus. I should introduce you to our former guitarist. You guys would get along great. [/QUO

I agree...

Aprod might not remember the solo section of the song as recorded starts with a harmonica solo over a verse, then goes to the chorus progression for the guitar solo. It's perfectly plausible to think a harmonica-less band may have expected to follow the same format, replacing the missing soloist with another instrument, possibly more guitar.

All it would have required is simple communication, something the guitarist doesn't seem to be capable of.

 

[dkelley]

If I was the guiatrist I would be glad to leave. You can't get through a basic song like "Gimme Shelter"? Why would you stay on one chord when its a 3 chord progression?

Really? You just expect everyone to magically know every section of every song without discussing the chords in, for example, the solo break first? I've never played Gimme Shelter in my life, and maybe I could guess the right thing to do in the solo break, but maybe I couldn't.

There's no logic to expecting everyone to think like you do, or know what you know. Communication solves that.

Not communicating with people, but just expecting others to know and do exactly what you think they should, isn't rational.

In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a psychological diagnosis for people who exhibit that behavior.

;-)

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I've told folks my greatest asset as a band member is my personality, not my talent as a bass player (middling, at best).

Officially known as "a good hang"...

It's a thing and really important for any musician, technician, or crew member. If you're good enough, personable, and a team player, you'll probably go a lot farther than a technical wizard who's a d-bag.

Look what happened to Jaco... Legendary player with personal issues.

 

[turf3]

If I was the guiatrist I would be glad to leave. You can't get through a basic song like "Gimme Shelter"? Why would you stay on one chord when its a 3 chord progression?

Well, you know, there are people and bands who don't think their highest calling is to duplicate a recording. Personally, I think an extended solo on that one chord could sound really great. I'd probably start out pedaling it and gradually build through the solo - maybe to close out the extended solo, THAT's when you rip into the 3 chord descending pattern. It'll feel like you were riding a roller coaster up and up and up - hanging there for ever so long, then WOW you go tearing down the descent.

I haven't heard the Stones do the tune live. I wouldn't be the least surprised if in the 50+ years they've been performing it in public, they've varied how they do it. The album recording is likely to have been constrained by getting it into 3:30 so it'd fit on one side of a 45. That doesn't mean they do it that way when they're playing it live and spend 10 minutes on it.

 

[Bass Viking]

Until I looked it up just now, I have never heard "Gimme Shelter" by The Stones.

Never heard it? It's practically unavoidable if you listen to classic rock stations.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Never heard it? It's practically unavoidable if you listen to classic rock stations.

And does not exists on all the other stations.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

And does not exists on all the other stations.

Your profile doesn't list your age, but to anyone over 40 it's essentially a standard. If you're under 40, it's even been done in EDM

The song has been in movie soundtracks, TV commercials, bumper music in talk radio and sporting events...

 

[Eilif]

Just goes to show you that talent only goes so far. Good musicians needs to have the proper social game for a band to work. We all love good-natured ribbing & giving each other a hard time. But we never intentionally embarrass a member of the band... especially when they're doing nothing wrong.
.

Thanks for posting this and the link to the original. It's always interesting to see how these sort of situations resolve themselves. Glad to hear everyone is on the same page and you're moving on without him.
Good Luck!