Double Bass Homelessness

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No one else at the table said anything and I didn't think that was a conversation worth having. I wasn't angry but I just figured he didn't understand. I sat back for the next half hour and listened to them talk about golf.
As you see with some of these replies. The mindset is very "Not my problem, put them in jail or a psych center." but the background is so complex decent amount of homeless today were in psychiatric centers, but were all left behind because of the rush to close them and move them to homes or back with families.
No issue is really honestly black or white in our politics, too many act like they.
Homelessness is exactly that, it is very complex, but sadly people want to treat it as "Get a job." or "Go to a shelter or put them in jails."
I bet those same guys who talked about golf would have a totally different opinion if their child was struggling with mental illness, a very bad drug addiction and became homeless as a result. Sadly the issue of homelessness and combing mental illness is very much "Doesn't affect me much so I don't wanna bother helping."

Great post by the way, it capture I think why we struggle with these ideas with many people being unaware. I had a lot of points for this chat, but some of them stretch to debate so I want to avoid that for myself. Last time I had a debate on cars oh boy that ended boy LOL.
The low-income housing point from Long Island sadly hits home for me. Long Island is very split on low-income housing, many people are leaving LI, the reality is my age can not afford it, no one kids will. Many have accepted "I can live here but my kids can't" just one of the points in the many we have.
 
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Well, we're going to try. There has been a request to delete it. The post itself doesn't violate any rules. I have issued one warning for politics on a reply and I will be quick to issue others if I need to.

I have faith that the DB membership can have a civil discussion, respecting trolling and politics rules. BG members, welcome, but respect the tone over here. There will be no grace given.
This might also do well in the Lobby. We’ve had some good, somewhat controversial conversations over there that have stayed respectful.
 
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I have a close friend who ran a 5 episode (or something) podcast called "The Outsiders" about homelessness in Seattle. He spent months talking with homeless people, police, aid workers, etc and he won a journalism award for it.

I admittedly haven't listened to it (sorry Will), but I have talked to him about what he learned. Some of you may be interested in checking it out.
 
This might also do well in the Lobby. We’ve had some good, somewhat controversial conversations over there that have stayed respectful.
It might, but it was posted in DB - Off Topic by a regular to the DB fora, so we're going to try to have it here. Don't treat it like the lobby. Regular forum rules apply.
 
I have a close friend who ran a 5 episode (or something) podcast called "The Outsiders" about homelessness in Seattle. He spent months talking with homeless people, police, aid workers, etc and he won a journalism award for it.

I admittedly haven't listened to it (sorry Will), but I have talked to him about what he learned. Some of you.may be interested in checking it out.
Even a guy like me can learn. For instance I learned about approaching homeless people out doors. It may be that bench they are sitting on may be their version of a living room. It helps to be aware of that and enter their space with respect just like you would at someone's home.
 
..... majority of people we see on the street are drug addicts, alcoholics and mentally ill people....... They don't need a house, they need help with their addiction or mental illness.
One of the big problems in Emergency Dept's here in Australia are homeless/addicts clogging up city ED's looking for a place to stay, or a safe place away from violence for the night. Many know the drill, "I have chest pain", and they go to the front of the queue. (Emergency health care is free over here)

I don't think we'd see these people in ED's if they didn't need a place to stay. An ED is not the place to treat addiction, and quite possibly a bad place for someone feeling suicidal.
 
I was just about to post that we've got 16 posts and none were political, not even the posts stating that it's impossible to keep politics out of the discussion when I saw Troy's reminder. I respectfully disagree that we can't discuss homelessness without getting political. We've been discussing religion for years without getting political so homelessness should be a walk in the park. My original article is factual and not about government budgets or policy. Slowbake's posts also address the issue without crossing into politics. If you feel you can't discuss the topic without discussing politics, then I'd say that this isn't the thread for you because you'll only be frustrated.

I think the OP article suggests that solutions are being developed and implemented and look promising. No system is ever going to be perfect and some people will slip through the cracks and be hurt, but isn't it good that earnest people are trying to improve the situation rather than just complain about it?
 
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One of the big problems in Emergency Dept's here in Australia are homeless/addicts clogging up city ED's looking for a place to stay, or a safe place away from violence for the night. Many know the drill, "I have chest pain", and they go to the front of the queue. (Emergency health care is free over here)

I don't think we'd see these people in ED's if they didn't need a place to stay. An ED is not the place to treat addiction, and quite possibly a bad place for someone feeling suicidal.
That sounds like a negative side effect. I haven't been to Australia. Are there homeless shelters there? What are they doing to address the problem?
 
Very cool to hear about a solution that worked from the OP. We have a big issue with homelessness here in Canada too over the last decade or so (of course longer than that but it seems to be getting worse in recent years). We have such a huge housing deficit with seemingly no new building going on while still bringing in immigrants (which we also very much need for our economy) that it's really hard to see things getting better for a long time. The housing industry here is soooo slow to build that things are likely only going to get worse further.
 
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Are you sure that the descent into homelessness isn't the reason for addiction and mental health issues rather than the other way round? Sounds like blaming a symptom to me.
It could be but there is no one size fits all. As for me, I was self medicating my issues. The drugs and alcohol helped at first but eventually they made things worse and it became a downward spiral. I was never homeless but came pretty close. Sleeping at a construction site where I lived and accepting help from a good friend who provided me with a room to sleep.
 
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While I grasp why you want this, it is simply not possible to have rational discussion about the topic without it getting political. Because any non-private solutions, successful or otherwise, involve both the expenditure of tax dollars and the allocation of real estate.

But for the moment, and without getting into party politics, I’ll flip the whole thing over. To the East Coast, that is. There’s a place on Long Island called East Hampton. This is really emblematic of the entire eastern half of the South Fork of Long Island. Anyway, these incredibly wealthy communities lost restaurants and other services during Covid… and they continue to lose services today. Reason? They refuse to zone for low income housing.

Access to that area is restricted to a single lane in each direction for a stretch of some miles. There’s also rail service, but only two stations for 15 miles.

So if you are a young mom who needs to work, how do you get there during busy season? You either a) get a car, and sit in terrible traffic for 90 minutes each way OR b) take the train, which ain’t cheap, then take a cab (which is quite expensive) to your workplace. Combine the low salary with the cost of commute plus your need to purchase child care for three hours above and beyond your work hours, and you finish the day with zero money to pay rent or feed your family.

So here are these very wealthy people, complaining that restaurants are getting scarce. And complaining about the rising prices at those restaurants that still survive. Yet at the town council level, these same residents repeatedly refuse to allow zoning that would put low income housing anywhere near them.

So again, and without getting too political… yes, it’s a housing problem. Different symptom than the one originally outlined in the thread, but same core issue.
That's an interesting story and I think that my take-away is that homelessness is a regional problem, for the most part. Like real estate itself, it's always a local market. The situation is pretty grim in SF and LA, San Diego. I understand that it's less of an issue in the U.S. mid-West.

But, I have to disagree with you on the nature of the problem. The housing shortage is just one aspect and the problem has many facets. Debilitating mental health issues and addiction are another. People who don't speak English are another because they have so much trouble navigating a complex and patchworked bureaucracy and since we don't do a good job educating our children to speak more than one language, people to help are in short supply. And then "at-will" employment, substandard wages, and a stingy social safety net play a factor too, causing families to lose their home when one unexpected financial emergency disrupts their entire lifestyle since they have no savings.

And the housing crisis also has many facets. Part of the issue is that the residents who inhabit nice communities want the character of their communities frozen in time, height restrictions, density restrictions, parking restrictions, size restrictions. These are all "government" rules but were really established at the desire of the historical residents. Unfortunately, all of these restrictions discourage new development. It's understandable, but untenable because soon you wind up with a community like the one you described in LI that can't function autonomously, so, not realistic. South of San Francisco is another example.

And then the mortgage crisis on 2008 didn't help either because so many developers went bankrupt during those couple of years that now the entire industry has PTSD and is afraid of nearly any financial risk.

And then, here in Cali we've shot ourselves in the OTHER foot by building in firezones. Of course, that kind of mistake is as old as mankind, choosing poor locations to build - flood plains, mudslides, landslides, firezones. Probably mostly a combination of greed and ignorance.

So, I'm confident that homelessness is a complex problem that requires dedicated, persistent resources to address and alleviate. It will probably always be a problem but it looks like here in Cali, we might be turning a corner. Better late than never.
 
“Housing is not the solution to homelessness” is a twist I did not see coming.
Why? I seem to recall a time in the recent past, and still able to be observed currently here and there, where there were tons of "help wanted" signs in businesses everywhere, and yet will h no one willing to fill those vacancies, and employers really scrambling to keep their shops open without enough employees, despite folks being unemployed. Sometimes the root causes of problems aren't as simple as addressing a symptom. The REASONS people are homeless can't be solved by simply giving everyone a home, just like the existence of jobs didn't automatically mean every one went back to work. That is NOT to say we shouldn't try to help. Of course we should. We may not, however, see eye to eye on what true help looks like.
Give a man a fish.....etc.
 
"Go get a job" they say.
Be hilarious to wipe everyone's bank account to = Zero instantly. Watch how mental you get in 3 days.
No Food, No shower, No car, No transportation, No clean clothes, No roof, No money. No phone Everything you take for granted Gone.
Lets see how you do at that " Job Interview". Guarantee you wont get it.
Just go to work LOL. Go ahead and wake up in some bushes from a cold night. You have no car, No food, Smell like a Rat.
I bet your day at work is gonna be no problem. Go ahead skip breakfast, then lunch, then dinner. Sleep in a bush.
Such a big mystery your manager noticed a slight degrade in your performance today.

Take the bus lol, oh right the bus is free when your account is zero. Dizzy and hungry. Oh food, humans dont eat food.
Even if you asked for food, and bus money to get to the job you dont have. Ask somebody for help and money.
The answer is " Get a Job"

Being your caught in a loop of insanity. Why didnt you just " Go to work today"
Im sure you can solve Zero Money in your head in a few minutes. Sitting at home with money.
Tomorrow when your account is zero, and just your breakfast will be a challenge.
Peoples magical assumptions and solutions are not based on actual reality.
Meaning if your account was zero. Then obviously you have no problem then with tomorrow's option being.
Losing everything, and the fair solution would be going to jail. Since that seems to be many peoples solution.

The city and banks are just tired today. They decided it would be easier to not manage accounts and pave roads, update sewers.
It would be easier to just put everybody in jail. See how much cheaper that is. Such a easy solution.
You dont mind going to jail right? All this stuff you have is just to much of a burden for the World.
Dont get upset ok, we dont want to label you " ill" just be happy in your little jail cell. ITS FREE!!
Im sure you wont mind your new cell mate barfing from heroine. Its a shelter be so so happy
 
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Even a guy like me can learn. For instance I learned about approaching homeless people out doors. It may be that bench they are sitting on may be their version of a living room. It helps to be aware of that and enter their space with respect just like you would at someone's home.
This. It's called EMPATHY. Something sorely lacking in our country (the US) these days.
 
i've talked to a lot of homeless people here in los angeles. many are from other states where the cold or heat might kill them. and not all homeless people are alike or have the same problems. sure, some are heavy drinkers, drug users and have mental or emotional issues. but some aren't so bad off, at least not at the start.

btw, i used to live by gelson's in hollywood on franklin. for at least 2 years, there was a very quiet, clean man living on the bus bench. he had been an engineer, had a college degree. if someone gave him money, he'd buy food, and once he had food, he'd buy and read detailed and scientific non-fiction. after he'd finish a book, he'd get partial trade in at the local used book store. if you ever lived around there, chances are you saw him around.

i talked to a couple with a 2 year old daughter. the family was living in their car and came here from a cold state with few jobs hoping for opportunity but also wanting not to freeze to death. they were very nice. we talked, they weren't begging. he had gotten a minimum wage job, but they didn't have the money yet to get a place. an ex of mine lived on the streets while working at subway.

or there was the quiet homeless vet who had paperwork go wrong at the VA, and had at least temporarily lost his one room with bath apartment they had been helping him with. very nice guy, but severe PTSD, not quite functional. and without a mailing address, i can't see how that issue with the VA could get fixed, but i hope it was.

on the other hand, i live unfortunately near where there was a homeless camp. the powers that be broke that one up - the smell was horrendous, several of the people harassed people on the street, and they had completely covered the sidewalk and were moving into the street. unfortunately this is happening a lot. we can't go go carlson park, and a homeless encampment in west l.a. was broken up after there was poop all over the place and then more than one fire... our local ralph's sometimes has a homeless man who begs, threatens and follows people till the guard moves him on. he's nothing like that guy who lived on the bench in front of gelson's. i don't think the same things will help both men.

i think this is a multi-layered problem, but because it's so huge, people try to fix it as a single problem. it's tragic and sad. it's also sometimes dangerous and unsanitary.
 
i think this is a multi-layered problem, but because it's so huge, people try to fix it as a single problem. it's tragic and sad. it's also sometimes dangerous and unsanitary.
Absolutely completely agree.

The last man I helped is stuck in a wheelchair, with a fresh amputated finger.
on a 8 month waiting list for 68 beds. He will die from winter exposure.

I didnt yell at him to get a job, or throw him in jail.
Or raid the camp he lived in.

Far as sanitary , Proposing more public bathrooms, usually declined.
So the poopy goes on the streets.
The like to pretend the money went to 20 temp beds.
When thousands would like bathrooms.
 
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