How do I adjust this one string height on the three-point bridge of an Epiphone Jack Casady?

[mxmxm]

I recently changed strings on my Epiphone Jack Casady and then proceeded to adjust the intonation as I noticed that the tuning was all over the place between the open string and the 12th fret.

For the details, I play on 50-110 flatwound strings tuned in Drop C (C-G-C-F) and I like my action fairly high so I'm totally satisfied with the neck being kinda bent by the higher gauge.

So the intonation tuning went fine with the three higher strings but proved to be difficult with the low C string. I had to move the saddle almost all the way down the bridge and still, it's not perfect.
But on the three-point bridge of the Casady, the strings are in the way of the saddles to adjust the intonation (what a stupid design!) and it got hard to screw at some point so I just left it at this point.

My main problem now is that moving the saddle down on the low C string considerably lowered this very string around the body part (not so much for the neck) and it hits the pickup when I pluck it.
The pickup is not especially high, it does not bother the other strings so I blame it on the bridge.

Now, I don't really know what to move on the bridge in order to have both a good string height and a good intonation.
Most videos and general tutorials I watched deal with "standard" bridges with screws under the bridge to adjust the intonation and little screws on top of each string to adjust the height. But on the Casady, there's only screws under the strings to adjust the intonation and the three points to adjust the whole bridge.
Should I move the whole bridge up on the low C side? Won't it unsettle the whole bass? Should I bring the saddle back up?

I can send pictures if needed, but it seems like these three-point bridges are quite known.

Thank you in advance!

 

[johnh89]

3 point Gibson style bridges have their fans . I'm not one of them . My JC has a Hipshot supertone . Easy adjustment of everything . I am guessing that you will have to lift the bass side of the bridge and spread out the problems across all strings . The biggest problem folk have with the bridge is incorrect setup leading to the bridge pulling the inserts out . Make sure that the bolt at the top of the bridge is out more than the two at the heel .

 

[mxmxm]

3 point Gibson style bridges have their fans . I'm not one of them . My JC has a Hipshot supertone . Easy adjustment of everything .

Thank you for your help!

I read about this Hipshot bridge. It often comes down to this on other discussions I read.
For now, it's a bit pricey for me to get it new, but I'm considering it so I keep an eye on second-hand ads.

I am guessing that you will have to lift the bass side of the bridge and spread out the problems across all strings .

I'll try that! Thank you!
What do you mean by "spread out the problems across the strings"? What will move exactly? The action? The intonation? A bit of everything? Should I raise the pickup afterwards?

The biggest problem folk have with the bridge is incorrect setup leading to the bridge pulling the inserts out . Make sure that the bolt at the top of the bridge is out more than the two at the heel .

I'll try to lift the bass side of the bridge then!
What do you mean by "spread out the problems across the strings"? What will move exactly? The action? The intonation? A bit of everything?

 

[Matt Liebenau]

It’s good advice to have the front post slightly higher then the back two on the bridge. I have several Epi’s with three point bridges and no issues. All of them are set up like that.

If they’re new strings, set the witness points first then recheck the intonation. There are several threads about witness points here.

If one string is off you could check that the saddles are in the right locations. You have to disassemble the bridge to check but they saddles are numbered 1-4 and they are graduated in height. All my Epi’s have been used but 2 of three or four have been wrong. I can’t say if they came that way from the factory or if a previous owner was frolicking about with the settings. If the saddles are right you’d have to average out, so to speak, the string heights by adjusting the side that’s off. The other option would be to file the grooves deeper in the saddles that are too high. Ideally you’d do that with nut files that are the correct size but it can be done carefully with needle files as well. Be sure and deburr the slots when you’re done.

 

[mxmxm]

Okay so this discussion shed the light on the fact that it seems that my bridge's inserts are already out... See 2nd and 3rd attachments to see the position of the bridge (1st one is the position of the lowest string compared to the others). That explains the height difference.

I got it like this second-hand last year and it didn't occur to me that it wasn't supposed to be that way as it never bothered me while playing, but it seems it has been out all along.
What worries me is that the bass has been in between the hands of two different luthiers for various things and none of them noticed...

Now, should I put the strings out, push the bridge back in, put the strings back and set everything or is it something too tricky and it should go to the luthier right away?

Thanks for your help nonetheless! I'm sorry, it might have waste your times but it shed the light on things I might have overlook!

 

[mxmxm]

It’s good advice to have the front post slightly higher then the back two on the bridge. I have several Epi’s with three point bridges and no issues. All of them are set up like that.

If they’re new strings, set the witness points first then recheck the intonation. There are several threads about witness points here.

If one string is off you could check that the saddles are in the right locations. You have to disassemble the bridge to check but they saddles are numbered 1-4 and they are graduated in height. All my Epi’s have been used but 2 of three or four have been wrong. I can’t say if they came that way from the factory or if a previous owner was frolicking about with the settings. If the saddles are right you’d have to average out, so to speak, the string heights by adjusting the side that’s off. The other option would be to file the grooves deeper in the saddles that are too high. Ideally you’d do that with nut files that are the correct size but it can be done carefully with needle files as well. Be sure and deburr the slots when you’re done.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

I read some articles about the witness points, that's actually how I entered this loophole of setting things that move other things. Thanks for the head up!

Thanks for the tip regarding the saddles! I'll go with that if my problem remains after the basics are done.

 

[dalkowski]

Had the very common pull-out problem with the inserts on my Epi Allen Woody. I believe I learned in this very forum that a (very) little bit of Loctite solves the problem.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Okay so this discussion shed the light on the fact that it seems that my bridge's inserts are already out... See 2nd and 3rd attachments to see the position of the bridge (1st one is the position of the lowest string compared to the others). That explains the height difference.

I got it like this second-hand last year and it didn't occur to me that it wasn't supposed to be that way as it never bothered me while playing, but it seems it has been out all along.
What worries me is that the bass has been in between the hands of two different luthiers for various things and none of them noticed...

Now, should I put the strings out, push the bridge back in, put the strings back and set everything or is it something too tricky and it should go to the luthier right away?

Thanks for your help nonetheless! I'm sorry, it might have waste your times but it shed the light on things I might have overlook!

It looks like your inserts are pulling out. Those are the serrated things that the back posts thread into. You should probably address that or have that addressed before you go too much further with the set up. If you search the repair forum you find a number of threads about repairing the inserts.

 

[mxmxm]

It looks like your inserts are pulling out. Those are the serrated things that the back posts thread into. You should probably address that or have that addressed before you go too much further with the set up. If you search the repair forum you find a number of threads about repairing the inserts.

Thank you, I'll do that!
It's crazy, when looking up the internet for pulled out bridge situations, in all discussions the culprit is always an Epiphone.
Thanks again!

 

[mxmxm]

Had the very common pull-out problem with the inserts on my Epi Allen Woody. I believe I learned in this very forum that a (very) little bit of Loctite solves the problem.

Thank you! I ran into different threads and discussions coming down to the same suggestions, I'll try that!

 

[dalkowski]

the culprit is always an Epiphone.

IME, that was Epi's only QC issue.

 

[johnh89]

Everything about the bridge is a compromise . Because of its design , changing one thing will affect something else . So you will have to compromise and average out the inconsistencies . It is possible to get it set up but it is hard work . The bass itself is an absolute gem so it is worth the effort . When properly set up , it is physically impossible for the inserts to pull out .

 

[MdC64]

Once you get the inserts glued and pushed in, setting up the string height and intonation should be easier.
I have a Jack bass and haven’t had any problems with the bridge. It’s a solid bridge once it is set up.
I do loosen the strings when working with the bridge and intonation screws. It’s a little tedious but works well for me.

 

[96tbird]

Yep. Do not proceed until you get the inserts reset and glued in. Pay attention to the ground wire; it’s inside one of the insert holes. Make sure the bridge is grounded before gluing them in.

But a question remains, your low C is hitting the pickup, so why wouldn’t you lower the pickup on the bass side? Your output can’t be in balance across the strings when the bass strings are so close to the pup.

I also think you need to shim your strings back so the whip end wrapping is behind the saddles. Your whip ends are in front of the saddles and you should put a shim on the ball ends to move them back behind.

 

[mxmxm]

Once you get the inserts glued and pushed in, setting up the string height and intonation should be easier.
I have a Jack bass and haven’t had any problems with the bridge. It’s a solid bridge once it is set up.
I do loosen the strings when working with the bridge and intonation screws. It’s a little tedious but works well for me.

The glue is drying as we speak.
Since I was a bit reluctant with using glue at first, I tried to fill the void between the inserts and the holes with teflon tape (I don’t know if that's how it is called in English?), but the inserts of the bridge sliped back out the very moment I started to pull the strings back in place.
So I went with some polymere glue. I'll let it dry for a few hours before putting the strings back for now and will go back at it. But I'm confident that adjusting the intonation and all will be easier now that the bridge is at its place.
Thank you for your comment!

 

[mxmxm]

Everything about the bridge is a compromise . Because of its design , changing one thing will affect something else . So you will have to compromise and average out the inconsistencies . It is possible to get it set up but it is hard work . The bass itself is an absolute gem so it is worth the effort . When properly set up , it is physically impossible for the inserts to pull out .

I see! To be honest, I'm a total newbie to all that is setting and adjusting instruments because I actually never really had issues with anything.
I like my action fairly high, so the natural bending of the neck with higher gauge strings has always been perfectly fine for me. Same with the bridge and the rest.
So that's really interesting to get at it and to understand how it all works and how all of these elements interact.
Thank you again for your guidance!

 

[mxmxm]

Yep. Do not proceed until you get the inserts reset and glued in. Pay attention to the ground wire; it’s inside one of the insert holes. Make sure the bridge is grounded before gluing them in.

But a question remains, your low C is hitting the pickup, so why wouldn’t you lower the pickup on the bass side? Your output can’t be in balance across the strings when the bass strings are so close to the pup.

I also think you need to shim your strings back so the whip end wrapping is behind the saddles. Your whip ends are in front of the saddles and you should put a shim on the ball ends to move them back behind.

Ah damn, I went ahead and didn't know about the ground wire part...
I noticed before that it has a hum when not touching metal parts (but all my basses share this, so I blamed it on my electric installation where amp and pedalboard are plugged in).

As for the pickup height, I never had problem with it before, that's why I blamed it on the bridge regarding this issue as that's the only thing that moved.
But as I'm doing this, I'll take time to adjust the pickup height as well.

As for your latest part, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Is there something weird you noticed about how the strings lay on the saddles?
For now, I pushed all the saddle back to their lowest. It will probably be easier to adjust the intonation going one way.
Thank you for your advices!

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Ah damn, I went ahead and didn't know about the ground wire part...
I noticed before that it has a hum when not touching metal parts (but all my basses share this, so I blamed it on my electric installation where amp and pedalboard are plugged in).

As for the pickup height, I never had problem with it before, that's why I blamed it on the bridge regarding this issue as that's the only thing that moved.
But as I'm doing this, I'll take time to adjust the pickup height as well.

As for your latest part, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Is there something weird you noticed about how the strings lay on the saddles?
For now, I pushed all the saddle back to their lowest. It will probably be easier to adjust the intonation going one way.
Thank you for your advices!

What he means, and @96tbird correct me if I’m wrong, is that the overwrapped part of the string is sitting in the saddles. This has the potential to cause intonation and tone issues. On 2 of that style of bridge I’ve used bar stock and drilled holes through it then run the strings through the bar then through the saddles and string it up as normal. Oddly enough, I haven’t done that on my JC and it seems to be fine. Aluminum or brass works well and is easy to machine at home.



As far as the bridge ground, if you have a multimeter check for continuity between the bridge and the output jack sleeve.

 

[mxmxm]

What he means, and @96tbird correct me if I’m wrong, is that the overwrapped part of the string is sitting in the saddles. This has the potential to cause intonation and tone issues. On 2 of that style of bridge I’ve used bar stock and drilled holes through it then run the strings through the bar then through the saddles and string it up as normal. Oddly enough, I haven’t done that on my JC and it seems to be fine. Aluminum or brass works well and is easy to machine at home.

I see! Thanks for explaining!
That's nice, I'll check out at my local retail shop if I can find anything that could fit.

As far as the bridge ground, if you have a multimeter check for continuity between the bridge and the output jack sleeve.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check that out as well!

 

[mxmxm]

The glue is drying as we speak.

I am saddened to inform that the glue didn't hold when I tightened the strings. It's really like the inserts are sliding up the cavity as soon as the strings pull on the bridge.

I think I'll take it to a luthier next week, see how it goes in better hands than mine.

Thank you all for your help and advices! Despite my poor achievements, I really feel like I have a better understanding of how all this gear works!