How do you handle songs you can't play well?

G

glocke1

Supporting Member
Apr 30, 2002
3,449
4,947
5,316
PA
#1
For some reason Im really having trouble with the Dead's rendition of "Hey Pocky Way".



I've got a general idea of what Phil is doing, but thats basically it, a general idea. Whats the best approach for playing a song you just can't get a firm grasp of?

The meters version of this song Im fine on, but the band I'm in will more than likely want to this rendition of it.

note: one more reason why I like 70s era Dead. Phils playing was much more accessible back than lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Smooth_bass88, Morrighan and HolmeBass
#2
Depends on the song. Something like that sounds like you could be OK following the chord progression and getting the overall heavily syncopated feel. There's no concrete riff that people are going to notice if you got wrong. A song like YYZ, say, on the other hand, I would say we either had to nail it or not do it at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spectrum, Charlzm, Bass Man Dan and 6 others
#3
I'm not familiar with that song, and only gave it a quick listen... but here's what I do when confronted with something along those lines.

First, I'm usually a note for note guy, but knowing the Dead, I'd forget that as most songs would be an exercise in futility - unless you have hours and hours and hours to spare. I also think it wouldn't be catching the real spirit of the band to that.

First thing I'd do is EQ it so I could hear the bass clearly, and slow it down. If you don't have a slow down player I highly recommend getting one. IMO, it's an essential tool for any musician doing covers. Transcribe is only about $40 and does everything needed, excellently. Anyhow... I'd use that to get the basic riffs down...

Then I'd learn the structure of the song, and not worry too much about playing along with the track. I found when NOT learning songs n4n, they can sound really off playing with the recording, but be totally on. A perfect example, for me at least - a little over a year ago I was in a Deep Purple/Rainbow tribute. Oddly enough, we decided to do Smoke on the Water last minute, before a show. The bass in that is improvised, but also kind of iconic (IMO) because of how much airplay the song got. Remembering every note and nuance with only a couple of days to learn it wasn't happening. I got the first verse down n4n, and then improvised the rest. Played to the recording, it would sound like I was messing up all over the place. Played with the band, not a single person knew I was doing anything differently - and these were top notch musicians.
 
  • Like
Reactions: flewis, Meghans Dad, Spectrum and 9 others
#4
glocke1 said:
For some reason Im really having trouble with the Dead's rendition of "Hey Pocky Way".



I've got a general idea of what Phil is doing, but thats basically it, a general idea. Whats the best approach for playing a song you just can't get a firm grasp of?

The meters version of this song Im fine on, but the band I'm in will more than likely want to this rendition of it.

note: one more reason why I like 70s era Dead. Phils playing was much more accessible back than lol.
Click to expand...


I can hear a 2-measure riff which is played in more or less "jamming" style - one measure bass is going up, and next measure going down. The bass player is very comfortable with that groove, feel; therefore, the bass line is full with tiny variations of that riff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SakuBass
#6
Whousedtoplay said:
I can hear a 2-measure riff which is played in more or less "jamming" style - one measure bass is going up, and next measure going down. The bass player is very comfortable with that groove, feel; therefore, the bass line is full with tiny variations of that riff.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's sort of what I was hearing. I guess it's the syncopated variations he does that throws me off. I guess I'll just focus on a simpler variation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SakuBass and Whousedtoplay
#7
When playing GD songs, I just get the feel of the song, try to figure out the key parts, and then play whatever I want to play. Phil doesn't even play his parts the same. I've been playing too long to not be myself. I use his sound as a basis for what I will do when covering their tunes.
I don't follow the note for note philosophy. Unless I'm studying a piece.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlueP, leegreenman, Bass Man Dan and 3 others
#10
Play root or root & 5th or go triad notes.

root-and-5th.jpg

 
  • Like
Reactions: rbuchholz
#14
I practice with a Tascam GT-R1 headphone amp. It has amp models, built in tuner, effects, you can build playlist, change tempo without changing pitch, change pitch without changing tempo and loop parts of songs so you can hear them over and over. I find it very helpful.
Tascam GT-R1.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spidey2112
#15
salcott said:
The version they’re basing theirs on is from the Neville Brothers “Fiyo on the Bayou” with David Barard on bass. That would be a good place to start.
Click to expand...

This is what I would do. With pretty much anything the Dead covered you can learn whatever they based it on and then embellish from there. Not a Dead fan but have respect and I've played several of their tunes. If you listen to a few you can kind of start to hear Lesh's sound. Then take the basic tune and add that sound.
 
#16
glocke1 said:
I've got a general idea of what Phil is doing, but thats basically it, a general idea. Whats the best approach for playing a song you just can't get a firm grasp of?
Click to expand...

Play the "general idea" and learn it right as fast as possible. With the Dead, you have the enormous advantage of just being able to say "oh, I learned the version from (random Dead show preferably from a period when they were doing lots of drugs)" and no one will ever question it. It's not like Phil was playing it right in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlueP, SakuBass, FunkyD and 3 others
#17
glocke1 said:
For some reason Im really having trouble with the Dead's rendition of "Hey Pocky Way".



I've got a general idea of what Phil is doing, but thats basically it, a general idea. Whats the best approach for playing a song you just can't get a firm grasp of?

The meters version of this song Im fine on, but the band I'm in will more than likely want to this rendition of it.

note: one more reason why I like 70s era Dead. Phils playing was much more accessible back than lol.
Click to expand...


I think the first thing to realize is Phil never tried to play it the same way twice.

I am actually working up this very tune for a jam-bandish take this coming Friday. I am sticking close to Mr. Porter’s rendition with The Meters and will let the spirit move me to any further embellishment.

As the drummer gets busier and louder during the solos, as his eyes roll back into his head and perhaps some spittle begins to fly, I will increase my note density and the range of my part and play a bit louder as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4dog
#18
Spin Doctor said:
One reason I can't get a handle on this song is that the drummers are destroying all sense of the groove in both versions. It's a trashcan lid free-for-all.
Click to expand...
I kinda thought that too. I’m not much of a Dead fan though, and given their reputation I assumed they knew what they were doing. Song sounds “off” for lack of a better word. Might have a lot to do with why the OP is struggling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FunkyD, staurosjohn and Spin Doctor
#19
Joe Nerve said:
I kinda thought that too. I’m not much of a Dead fan though, and given their reputation I assumed they knew what they were doing. Song sounds “off” for lack of a better word. Might have a lot to do with why the OP is struggling.
Click to expand...

I honestly feel that's the issue. I think if he and his drummer get together on a solid groove, the syncopation will take care of itself. Just leaving some of that cymbal noise would help immensely. I've never been a Dead fan either because to me, most of the music I've heard from them sounds like that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bass12 and Mugre
#20
I have never felt the need to be totally accurate playing a cover of someone else's cover.
For that matter, unless the goal is be a tribute of sorts why not just make the song your own?
Go back to the original song. Learn it so that you can be true to the spirit of the composition and then stretch from there.
Using Hey Pocky A-Way as an example; I think a lot more people will be familiar with the Meters original version than the Dead's cover. So even if you played the Dead's version a little bit off, most people wouldn't know the difference between that and if you had nailed it note for note.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bass Man Dan
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back