How do you work on Timing?

[hbarcat]

Involve body mechanics with your playing.

After I'd been playing bass and regularly gigging for about 10 years, I was listening to some recordings of our live shows and realized my timing was erratic and I would frequently hit some notes too early. I remembered the advice from some professional bassist, which was to tap your foot or bob your head in time to the beat. You essentially become your own metronome.

I found this worked exceptionally well and the results were immediate. My timing improved dramatically, and the drummer in my band, who had a degree in music performance, commented on it, saying that I had acquired a much better "groove".

 

[hbarcat]

I know that this will be an unpopular thing to say, but I disagree with the advice to practice to a metronome. In my opinion, it runs the risk of playing that is too exact and lacks the groove that's necessary for most music genres that we bassist typically play, which usually values the feel of spontaneity

A metronome is a useful tool for symphonic or other classical music settings, which is why it's used so much by teachers in that type of music. My feeling is that developing your own internal metronome that isn't based on learning from a mechanical timing device will make for a more "organic" performance.

 

[bass12]

I know that this will be an unpopular thing to say, but I disagree with the advice to practice to a metronome. In my opinion, it runs the risk of playing that is too exact and lacks the groove that's necessary for most music genres that we bassist typically play, which usually values the feel of spontaneity

A metronome is a useful tool for symphonic or other classical music settings, which is why it's used so much by teachers in that type of music. My feeling is that developing your own internal metronome that isn't based on learning from a mechanical timing device will make for a more "organic" performance.

I can say that where the metronome aids me the most is in helping me identify what my tendencies are. This is harder to do when playing with other people in a band setting.

I find that tapping of the foot (as you mentioned above) or moving my bass neck back and forth helps a lot. I remember hearing Mark King offer foot tapping as a tip and I figured, “Well, if Mark King [who I think has excellent timing] is recommending that then there must be something to it”.

 

[Hachimitsu]

Counting out loud while playing
Also playing off a metronome.. set the metronome to 4/4 but displace your beat by an eighth note. So your beats land inbetween the metronome clicks. Once you're comfortable with that, displace by a 16th note.. takes some getting used to, I learnt this technique from watching YouTube videos for drummers improving timing

 

[byacey]

Playing out of time between the clicks? This doesn't seem like a good way to fine hone your sense of timing.

Set the metronome for 1/2 time and see if you wind up on the 2nd and subsequent clicks. Mastering that, cut your time to 1/4 time, and then 1/8 time and see how you do.

 

[MrLenny1]

Play along with a recording and scale exercises
with a metronome.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Playing out of time between the clicks? This doesn't seem like a good way to fine hone your sense of timing.

Set the metronome for 1/2 time and see if you wind up on the 2nd and subsequent clicks. Mastering that, cut your time to 1/4 time, and then 1/8 time and see how you do.

Displacing the beat by 8th or 16th notes isn't "playing out of time". But I suppose how well you can hear those subdivisions depends on how good your time is in the first place.

 

[chris_b]

To improve timing you just have to play, and play, and play.

The special guys, who have perfect timing, have it in their genes. I don't believe that level synchronization, can be taught, but for the rest of us hard work is the way.

 

[Hachimitsu]

Playing out of time between the clicks? This doesn't seem like a good way to fine hone your sense of timing.

Set the metronome for 1/2 time and see if you wind up on the 2nd and subsequent clicks. Mastering that, cut your time to 1/4 time, and then 1/8 time and see how you do.

Your idea is fine too.. but the method I mentioned is not playing out of time. Its playing with a metronome, rather than on it. Don't take my word for it though...

It takes some working on it though, you might be playing out of time the first time you try it

 

[byacey]

Playing in the pocket requires that you play exactly on, slightly ahead, or slightly behind the beat, depending on the feel you re trying to create. Playing in between the "cracks" leaves a lot of time for timing errors. If you're trying to play tight to a drummer, he probably wouldn't appreciate a bassist playing in between the beats.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Playing in the pocket requires that you play exactly on, slightly ahead, or slightly behind the beat, depending on the feel you re trying to create. Playing in between the "cracks" leaves a lot of time for timing errors. If you're trying to play tight to a drummer, he probably wouldn't appreciate a bassist playing in between the beats.

Knowing how to subdivide a beat is critical and it's not "playing in the cracks" as you say. Real Funk lives in the "e" and the "a" of the beat. You might want to honestly investigate this a bit further. However, you gotta do what you feel and what works for that music you play. It's all good

 

[Spin Doctor]

Playing in the pocket requires that you play exactly on, slightly ahead, or slightly behind the beat, depending on the feel you re trying to create. Playing in between the "cracks" leaves a lot of time for timing errors. If you're trying to play tight to a drummer, he probably wouldn't appreciate a bassist playing in between the beats.

You can give this a listen and if it works for you, great. If it doesn't, just do your thing.

Understanding subdivisions leads to the stuff in this video, and this particular vid isn't where you want to start learning how to do that. You have to do some ground work first. But It's a place that you can end up, if you really understand rhythm and time.

 

[byacey]

Knowing how to subdivide a beat is critical and it's not "playing in the cracks" as you say. Real Funk lives in the "e" and the "a" of the beat. You might want to honestly investigate this a bit further. However, you gotta do what you feel and what works for that music you play. It's all good

I agree, but to develop a good sense of timing, I believe one needs to first learn how to play in time on the beat, before being able to play within subdivisions of those beats. If one can't keep good time on a straight 4/4 rhythm, they would never be able to grasp latino syncopations or other advanced rhythms.

 

[Hachimitsu]

You can give this a listen and if it works for you, great. If it doesn't, just do your thing.

Understanding subdivisions leads to the stuff in this video, and this particular vid isn't where you want to start learning how to do that. You have to do some ground work first. But It's a place that you can end up, if you really understand rhythm and time.

Killer video, going to check out the rest!

 

[Spin Doctor]

I agree, but to develop a good sense of timing, I believe one needs to first learn how to play in time on the beat, before being able to play within subdivisions of those beats. If one can't keep good time on a straight 4/4 rhythm, they would never be able to grasp latino syncopations or other advanced rhythms.

Yeah that's all true, but I was just addressing your comment that playing subdivisions is somehow out of time. That's simply not true. It may not be something that you're familiar with, but that doesn't make it out of time.

 

[Camarillo]

A lot of different approaches I see. Thank you everybody for sharing your experience.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Non-pro player here. I do fine with eight-notes, but those 16ths are pretty rough as I take my (long suspended) playing to the next level. Right now, I am working on 16s at about 50-60 BPM. I could go much faster with a pick, but I am switching to finger-style (and slap). Palm-muted flats was my thing, but I really want to untangle my finger-style now.

Like a drummer referenced above, I seem to have certain tempos in my head. It is kind-of hard for me to adjust to different tempos, so in addition to getting various 16th note sequences in my head, I am working on different tempos.

Sort-of hard to really get slap down when you are "16ths impaired"...
...1e+a...

I SO need this thread...

 

[JimmyM]

Hello everybody,
I did a quick search and didn't found other threads on this topic or maybe I'm not using the right word/definition.
During the lockdown and social distancing periods my band didn't rehearsed at all, so my keyboard player and I went to record some covers.
Talking about timing, to be on tempo so to speak, when I make mistakes is always because I'm slightly before beat. Not that much, but enough to be noticed on my ears.
As far as I know it's fine to play a little off beat, but after. Off beat but before the transient of the drums sounds like an error to me.
For sure I have to work on my technique, for sure the rush is connected with muscular memory and "anxiety" to the next not to play.
So my question is: How do you work on timing?
Is there specific exercises, tricks you use practicing with a metronome or a drums backing track?
Thanks

Do not think it’s all about being behind the beat. Some types of music require pushing the beat. Some types require being on it.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Do not think it’s all about being behind the beat. Some types of music require pushing the beat. Some types require being on it.

In looking into this recently, I believe I recall Sting from The Police generally plays ahead of the beat: it is "their sound". Always sounded "over-caffinated" to me.

Great vid on the subject:

In another vid, it was mentioned (by Marcus Miller) that you should practice at lots of different tempos. Otherwise, you may find you always tend to gravitate towards a certain BPM.

...and bob that head!
...but seriously, I would benefit from tapping my foot, bobbing my head, or something, more. I do OK with 8th note sub-divisions, but still have to work on those 16th grooves (where foot/head bobbing helps). That 16th before-the-beat feel isn't quite there yet, for example.

BTW, really meant to reply to Camarillo.

 

[IamGroot]

You can give this a listen and if it works for you, great. If it doesn't, just do your thing.

Understanding subdivisions leads to the stuff in this video, and this particular vid isn't where you want to start learning how to do that. You have to do some ground work first. But It's a place that you can end up, if you really understand rhythm and time.

Excellent post, excellent video. @Hachimitsu posted video is great too.

Confession: When I started playing bass, I thought I had a pretty good sense of time. After all, I was recording on guitar and playing both guitar and bass in a cover band. Then I went to music school and found out how bad my time sucked.

Use a metronome for serious practice. (not a drum machine).

Learn how to read music.... Sight reading helps you visualize time and play with certainty.

When you have the basics sorted out, learn different feels. Jazz swing, latin jazz, driving rock 8ths etc.

The real goal of metronomes is to help you INTERNALIZE time...i,e, to be able to play without tapping or external rhythmic support. Sight reading helps develop that sense. When you hear a great player like James Jamerson, you are hearing somebody who has internalized 16th notes.

Playing with groove once you have mastered time is a snap. Learning time will not destroy groove. Some people say differently, but if you ask them to play outside their comfort zone, it becomes obvious they are wrong. Herbie Hancock "Maiden Voyage" is a good example.