How often re-tuning between songs when gigging? F Player Precision Tuning Pegs.

#61
Ögon said:
Okay i did some additional research myself with 3 old string-sets i had laying around.
  1. Are there any differences in point/length tapering?
  2. Does the angle between string-sets differ?
Used E-strings:
DR Lo-Rider NW 105
Daddario NW 105
Dunlop SuperBright NW 105
DR Pure Blues NW 105

1. Are there any differences in point/length tapering?
To answer this, i measured the length from the outside of the ball-end until the first and the second tapering point.

Results:
View attachment 4270862
DR LR NW & DR PB NW = big gap between 1st and 2nd taper.
Dadd NW & Dunlop SB NW = smaller gap between 1st and 2nd taper.

Lets look at the difference in a pictures.

DR LR NW, biggest gap, 3,2 cm / 1,26":
View attachment 4270864

Dadd NW, smallest gap, only 0,6cm / 0,25":
View attachment 4270865

Note: With all strings, the size of the string between the 1st / 2nd tapering is the same. Also the size after the 2nd tapering is the same.

2. Does the angle between string-sets differ?
I cut the strings the exact same length + put them on the same way, pushing the string down / bend it while winding it.

DR LR NW:
View attachment 4270868
Dadd NW:
View attachment 4270869
Dunlop SB NW:
View attachment 4270871
DR PB NW:
View attachment 4270873
Look closely at the string going true the nut, string bending at the tuner and the overall straightness of the string from bottom until tuner.

From straight to flubby:
  1. Dadd NW - really straight
  2. Dunlop SB NW
  3. DR LR NW
  4. DR PB NW - flubby

Conclusion:

The tapering is different on each string set, which causes the E-string on a Precision Player bass (from Ögen) to have a possible / plausible different angle/straightness different string sets.:thumbsup:

Note: Repeating of the same measurements, setting witness-points multiple times using new string-sets is necessary to state these observations as a fact.

Questions to consider:
  • What would happen if you put on the same string multiple times in a row and set witness points multiple times?
  • Why is the D'addario string the only one that has such a small gap between the first and second taper? Do they know about this problem?
  • Does the difference in tapering actually cause small tuning issues for me?
  • Did setting the witness points solve the small tuning problems?

I will keep on using the DR LR NW for a while and time will tell if i still have the same issues after greasing the saddles/nut/tuner cogs with wax and setting the witness points.

Note: pushing the string down when winding and setting witness point does make a difference.
Click to expand...
In EVERY case the string need to be straightened between the post and the nut as Riis has said several times. Every thing else is pointless if the string is not installed properly.
 
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#63
Ögon said:
Yes, i did when trying the string-sets. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Not here: -
upload_2021-5-19_17-46-14.png


Not here:
upload_2021-5-19_17-47-15.png


Not here:
upload_2021-5-19_17-47-50.png


And not here:

upload_2021-5-19_17-48-24.png


So I'm trying to understand where you did straighten the string.
 
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#64
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#66
Turnaround said:
It’s not that you need to press down more, you need to press laterally to straighten out these curves:
View attachment 4274761
Click to expand...
Okay. Yes, i tried that yesterday.. Pulled it with 2 fingers sideways few times and it seemed to straightened it out more. Thanks for making me aware of it. :) Maybe i re-do that research in the future to see if it makes a difference after i straightened the E string(s) with 2 fingers. The funny thing is, there seemed to be a coherence between the distance of the tappers and the bend/angle at the post, (daddario = small distance tapers = no bend, straight string) but maybe it's less clear/big of a difference after i properly pulled it sideways a few times.
 
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#67
No matter what the tuners, from cheap Teisco del Ray's to Hipshots, I have had to re-tune more from temperature and humidity changes during the gig than I ever had to from the tuners, with one exception: a guitar player in a band I was in twenty-five or more years ago had a decent guitar that simply would not stay in tune. When I looked at it, the tuners had plastic casings that would warp. I replaced his tuners with real tuners and he was in tune from then on. On the other hand, my cheap acoustic guitar that I have had since 1978 in high school has had only one mounting screw replaced to one of the cheap tuners, and they still hold tune. My Rickenbacker 320 and 360-12 from 1981 have the old-style Kluson notoriously loose tuners, and by using proper technique, they keep these guitars in tune.

It's not necessarily the brand; it is not even necessarily the backlash from less than steller manufacturing quality. It is the adjustments if there are tuner post or tuner knob friction screws to help with stability, and it is the technique of wrapping the strings around the post properly and always slowly bringing the note up to pitch to keep consistent tension from the ball anchor, over the bridge, up the neck, over the nut, and seating on the tuners.
 
#68
Ögon said:
Okay. Yes, i tried that yesterday.. Pulled it with 2 fingers sideways few times and it seemed to straightened it out more. Thanks for making me aware of it. :) Maybe i re-do that research in the future to see if it makes a difference after i straightened the E string(s) with 2 fingers. The funny thing is, there seemed to be a coherence between the distance of the tappers and the bend/angle at the post, (daddario = small distance tapers = no bend, straight string) but maybe it's less clear/big of a difference after i properly pulled it sideways a few times.
Click to expand...
The bend strings at posts thing is solved. Yesterday i tried 5 sets of strings i have laying around,
(Dunlop SB NW old, Dunlop SB NW new, Daddario NW, DR PureBlues, DR Lo-Rider NW)
i wanted to check which of those sounds best after using them for a while, (Dunlop SB old/new seemed to be a bit dull in the mix sometimes compared to the others and the E is too low in tension for me, Daddario is okay but most fingernoise, DR Pureblues and Lo-Rider NW sit really well in the mix and feel really nice) i did the thumb bending at the posts.. the angles seemed alright after that, no weird bends at the tuning tuning posts. There is a tiny bit angle from the nut towards the tuning post, somewhere between 1 to 5 degree angle? (you have to look really close), but that's caused by the nut, maybe i will let that get fix later.

I used the DR Lo-Rider NW at a gig, almost no retuning needed.. i only had to make one small tuning adjustment one time, huge improvement over needing to retune after every song...

Not sure what was causing tuning issues before. But i did notice when i put on a different set, it sometimes needs 2-5 days before its stable in tuning.

I'm sure all the new things i learnt, help somehow, string bending at tuning posts / saddles, tiny bit of stretching, greasing nut / saddles / tuning cogs, and will keep on doing that when needed.

Thanks.:)
 
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