How should I bi-amp my Bass Rig?

P

Pan Dulce Bass

Guest
Jun 7, 2016
2
0
4,531
#1
I was searching for a thread that answers my specific question but was unable to find one.

I am not super tech-savvy so I will just describe what I would like to do and hopefully get some feedback on how to do it.

Right now I have:
2 x GenzBenz 9.0 shuttle amps
2 x BagEnd 18E-D 18" bass cabs (sealed)
1 x 108 Classic Markbass 8 x 10" cab (sealed)

I would like to get an active crossover that separates the signal at around 100-125hz sending the lows to the 18"s and the mid and highs to the 8 x 10"s.

Is is possible to just buy an active cross over. Plug my bass into the crossover. Send the low frequency to one GB shuttle running the 18"s. Send the highs to the other GB shuttle running the 10"s. Or do I need a pre amp before the cross over?

I also want to know if this is a good idea.

I like the tone of the 18"s when i run them by themselves and I also like the the tone of the 10"s on their own. But the 18"s are too muddy and the 10"s just don't have the thump I like. I think if I could somehow run the whole rig together I would get the tone I like.

Any suggestions of what active crossover I should get if that is the way to accomplish this?

Thanks in advance!
 
#3
No need to use a crossover, that was something that had a moment in the 90s, but in reality, taking the highs out of the 15s and 18s, and taking the lows away from the 10s was counter productive. Biamped bass rigs tended to sound as sterile as a pa.

Just run an ab box or some other splitter so you feed both amps, and dial to taste. If the amps.have tuner outs, use one to link the 2 amps and still keep individual control of volume and eq. Just chain the tuner out to the input of the other amp, or a pre eq DI out could be used with an adapter.

Also, using a crossover between the bass and 2 heads would not work right anyway, that kind of thing needs to happen post eq.

Just run them both full range, and eq to taste.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MVE, Rip Van Dan, BassManKK and 1 other person
#4
Pan Dulce Bass said:
I was searching for a thread that answers my specific question but was unable to find one.

I am not super tech-savvy so I will just describe what I would like to do and hopefully get some feedback on how to do it.

Right now I have:
2 x GenzBenz 9.0 shuttle amps
2 x BagEnd 18E-D 18" bass cabs (sealed)
1 x 108 Classic Markbass 8 x 10" cab (sealed)

I would like to get an active crossover that separates the signal at around 100-125hz sending the lows to the 18"s and the mid and highs to the 8 x 10"s.

Is is possible to just buy an active cross over. Plug my bass into the crossover. Send the low frequency to one GB shuttle running the 18"s. Send the highs to the other GB shuttle running the 10"s. Or do I need a pre amp before the cross over?

I also want to know if this is a good idea.

I like the tone of the 18"s when i run them by themselves and I also like the the tone of the 10"s on their own. But the 18"s are too muddy and the 10"s just don't have the thump I like. I think if I could somehow run the whole rig together I would get the tone I like.

Any suggestions of what active crossover I should get if that is the way to accomplish this?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
I wonder if you could feed your bass to both amp inputs and then feed one amp to your 18's and the other to your 8x10, and EQ each amp appropriately? Splitting the bass signal with an appropriate pedal, as mentioned above, would be a way to feed the bass to both amps. However, you could experiment with a simple Y cable to split the bass signal, and if you liked the results, upgrade to a pedal, which should act like an active splitter. You might notice a slight drop in signal to your amp with the passive Y splitter, but it should serve to tell you if the rest of the setup will work.
I looked at a few active crossovers and it doesn't appear that it would work to plug your bass into them. They seem to want to operate at speaker levels.
 
#5
ubernator said:
No need to use a crossover, that was something that had a moment in the 90s, but in reality, taking the highs out of the 15s and 18s, and taking the lows away from the 10s was counter productive. Biamped bass rigs tended to sound as sterile as a pa.

Just run an ab box or some other splitter so you feed both amps, and dial to taste. If the amps.have tuner outs, use one to link the 2 amps and still keep individual control of volume and eq. Just chain the tuner out to the input of the other amp, or a pre eq DI out could be used with an adapter.

Also, using a crossover between the bass and 2 heads would not work right anyway, that kind of thing needs to happen post eq.

Just run them both full range, and eq to taste.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a post EQ split probably makes sense, and each amp has EQ, so each set of cabs can be dialed in appropriately. So, a simple split would work.

The rest of that sounds like some alien conspiracy stuff. Sterile as a PA? You must mean awesome and Hi-Fi. The 90's were awesome!
 
#6
I use an alembic f1x split into both channels of a qsc plx 1804, lows go to a berg cn212 highs go to a cn112 sounds much better than going full range into both cabs plus my effects come off the highs only so I always have clean lows.

I also used to split my signal to two amps 1 effects 1 clean and then to identical cabs with excellent results (just had to be careful with effects that didn't flip phase). This might not work with different cabs though

I've seen plenty of thread posts where guys go straight into the rolls xover and are happy. Carrying around 2 18's and an 810 sounds like a lot of work though
 
#7
hondo4life said:
Yeah, a post EQ split probably makes sense, and each amp has EQ, so each set of cabs can be dialed in appropriately. So, a simple split would work.

The rest of that sounds like some alien conspiracy stuff. Sterile as a PA? You must mean awesome and Hi-Fi. The 90's were awesome!
Click to expand...

Sterile as in the speakers were prevented from doing what they do best. Taking the mids and highs out of a 15 and the lows out of the 10s really destroyed the character. HiFi perhaps, but musical instruments are not the same as full program. The 90s were awesome, and I tried it both ways, and found full range to sound better. Ever notice that the majority of 800rb users don't use the biamp feature, and most didn't use it on the stereo swrs either. In theory, great, in practice, sterile. Leave the biamping to the sound system.

2 amps for dry/wet is another thing, but that's not the same thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GreyBeard and Korladis
#8
My bass has the option of individual pickup outs so I have on a few occasions gone out from the bass to 2 x F1-x pre-amps and taking the full range outs from each to the QSC left and right channels then out to two mesa boogie cabs. That way I can eq each pickup separately. I have to say that the few times I tried it there was no WOW factor but I plan to try it again when I have a large theatre gig where i'm playing music with more of a full range than reggae which is my main gig.
I plan to try something similar to Stanley Clarkes setup with an 8x10 cab on each pickup plus a guitar amp fed from the bridge pickup F1-x's crossover high frequency output/ Massive overkill i'm sure but something to try out :-)
 
#10
Thanks all for responding so fast.

I ordered a Rolls sx21. Ill give that a shot and see how it sounds.

I don't always take the full rig to gigs. For smaller gigs ill usually take the 8x10s since it is more portable and versatile.

But when I can I would like to take the 18s also since it usually is very worth it.

Also it is nice to practice with the full rig.

Thanks again! Ill play around with the rolls and going through the tuner outs and see what sounds good.
 
#13
I'm going to suggest that you review your amp's owner's manual, it describes the signal routing for your amp.

Two ways to do this. The first and simplest way is to use a short 1/4" shielded cable from the first amp's effects send (preamp out) to the second amp's effects return (power amp in). Plug the 18's into one amp's speaker output and the 810 into the other amp's speaker output. The preamp on the first amp will be the one you use, the master volume on the second amp will be what controls the relative volume of the second. If you set the master volumes identically, the output power will be the same (assuming the same impedance).

The second way, using an active crossover, is to take the effects send of the first amp into the crossover input. The low out from the crossover will go to the effects return of the first amp and the high out will go to the effects return of the second amp. The 18's will connect to the first (low) amp and the 810 will connect to the second (high) amp.

Just be sure your 18's are 8 Ohm's, otherwise you run the risk of damaging your amp when paralleling 2 of them.

I would start with a crossover frequency of about 80Hz.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sartori, Rip Van Dan, Rich Fiscus and 1 other person
#14
I'm using a rackmounted Alembic F-1X preamp for a bi-amping application. The x-over is adjustable (I forget the sweep parameters) but I'm sending everything from below about 100 hz to a pair of dedicated low frequency speakers.

As an aside, have there been any earthquakes reported in your area? ;)
 
#15
I would like to get an active crossover that separates the signal at around 100-125hz sending the lows to the 18"s and the mid and highs to the 8 x 10"
Click to expand...
There's some validity to what you want to do, but not what you want to do it with. Using a pair of eighteens for the lows the most you need to go with them is a pair of tens. An 8x10 uses eight tens because it needs that many to handle lows. You'll be hauling around six more tens than you need for no good reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kartiste, Sartori, Downunderwonder and 1 other person
#16
agedhorse said:
The second way, using an active crossover, is to take the effects send of the first amp into the crossover input. The low out from the crossover will go to the effects return of the first amp and the high out will go to the effects return of the second amp. The 18's will connect to the first (low) amp and the 810 will connect to the second (high) amp.
Click to expand...

This is how I would do it.
 
#17
Pan Dulce Bass said:
I was searching for a thread that answers my specific question but was unable to find one.

I am not super tech-savvy so I will just describe what I would like to do and hopefully get some feedback on how to do it.

Right now I have:
2 x GenzBenz 9.0 shuttle amps
2 x BagEnd 18E-D 18" bass cabs (sealed)
1 x 108 Classic Markbass 8 x 10" cab (sealed)

I would like to get an active crossover that separates the signal at around 100-125hz sending the lows to the 18"s and the mid and highs to the 8 x 10"s.

Is is possible to just buy an active cross over. Plug my bass into the crossover. Send the low frequency to one GB shuttle running the 18"s. Send the highs to the other GB shuttle running the 10"s. Or do I need a pre amp before the cross over?

I also want to know if this is a good idea.

I like the tone of the 18"s when i run them by themselves and I also like the the tone of the 10"s on their own. But the 18"s are too muddy and the 10"s just don't have the thump I like. I think if I could somehow run the whole rig together I would get the tone I like.

Any suggestions of what active crossover I should get if that is the way to accomplish this?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

  1. First I would decide if I really needed the output of all the cabs, in terms of volume
  2. I would skip the cross over
  3. Make sure that all your cabs have the same polarity.
  4. Try running it all full range
  5. Decide you dont need that much output and just take the 810.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sartori and daveman50
#18
Another vote for not bi amping. In the 90s, what would happen is, a guy has a 2 story bi amped rig and you can't hear him other than at sound check when he's noodling alone. Nother plr has a Peavey 15 combo and she is clear as a bell. Could it be the missing low mids? the lack of punch? Imagine bi amping an acoustic bass. The big body resonates the low freq and the attached baby bass body resonates the mids and high. Nope. Bass sound is best from one integrated source with a natural curve between speakers. Your amp is part of your instrument, the PA needs bi amping and is a whole other kettle of fish.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jason Hollar
#20
Pan Dulce Bass said:
I like the tone of the 18"s when i run them by themselves and I also like the the tone of the 10"s on their own. But the 18"s are too muddy and the 10"s just don't have the thump I like. I think if I could somehow run the whole rig together I would get the tone.
Click to expand...

This is a little confusing. You say you the tone of each individually, but them are critical of each. Is it that you don't like them together?

My suggestion is similar to others - get an AB box, run a signal to each amp, one clean and one effects. Clean all goes to the 18s, dirty goes to the 810. EQ to taste, See how you like it.

I run a similar two amp dirty/clean rig, except all my cabs are the same. Your 810 and 18s may play well together or not. Gotta try it and see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sartori
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back