If it sounds good it doesn’t...

[Remoman]

Recording has got it's separate set of rules, but for live, yeah, FOH is pretty much always going to sound different than your mix on stage. Just had a big discussion with a bassist and a guitarist (my POV as a long time live sound guy) as we are watching a jam night last Thursday. The various acoustic factors change dramatically once you get past the stage and continue to change throughout the house.

Whether you are putting instruments through the PA or not, no matter what the setup or how small the venue, someone has to go out where the majority of the audience is going to be and listen. Adjust accordingly. Your sound might not be anything like you like on stage but sound good out front and vice a versa.

 

[Madhouse27]

Recording a few songs at rehearsal (even on an IPad or something) can sometimes give you a better idea of how you're sounding in the mix. My band settings are quite different than anything I'd use at home. I almost feel a little self-conscious about my tone when we're warming up because it's just not anywhere near my own ideal sound, but it really works with the other instruments.

 

[Epitaph04]

I learned to love the tones of all those isolated bass tracks on the internet. If my bass doesnt sound noisy and clacky and burpy and nasty then I dont want it.

 

[Spent]

Part of the issue is that most active basses provide a very full, hi-fi tone with lots of lows, lots of highs, and whatever mids the preamp allows. This allows the bass sound to take up a lot of sonic real estate in the sound spectrum, which doesn't mix well. It'll mix, but it takes a lot of effort and time in many cases.

A lower fidelity tone that isn't juiced up slots better in a mix because it doesn't compete with other frequencies that are typically reserved for other instruments. I know that most TB members take a solemn vow to cause bodily harm to any producer or engineer that suggests that they use a Precision Bass in a studio situation, but the not-so-pretty, low-bandwidth tone is a big part of the reason why they are so popular for recording.

Very true. I play a Carvin LB76w now and it’s active. I also have a Yamaha TBRX505 (great, inexpensive bass IMHO) and can put it in passive mode. I noticed that the Yamaha does sit in the mix easier in passive mode.

I beilieved it when you said you'll keep it short.. :..(

I also wrote “skip the next paragraph, you’ll thank me later.”

 

[tekhedd]

I think this is part of why tons of harmonic distortion works. The fundamental (and second harmonic) sit at the bottom of the mix, and one of the rainbow of harmonics will peek through wherever the rest of the band has left you a tonal hole. Which, with some guitar players, is often "only when they stop". I'm forever amazed at how much fuzz I can run, and still basically have only the fundamental of the note audible in the mix on stage.

And then there are bands where I can't run any distortion at all because they're all fighting for exactly the same sonic space at the high end of the frequency range, the Roland organ patches and the Strat and the singer all trying to use the same bandwidth, it's like trying to use public wifi.

 

[soulman969]

The first time I ever heard my raw bass track recorded straight to the board I was stunned. I was asking "are we actually gonna use this". Yep. By the time it was mixed and mastered it didn't even come close to sounding like the original cut.

Ever since then all I've ever done is ask the engineer what he wants and give it too him.

 

[ultra60]

P basses and Marshall amps. Neither sounds pleasing to me, when soloed at home. But there's not much that'll cut through a rock and roll mix better than these 2.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Everytime I play I start with my EQ flat and ajust it to my liking.

The purple dragon of tone or trying to emulate the tone on a recording is ...

 

[JaseyT]

I have said it here a thousand times. Your bedroom tone likely sucks in a mix.

You ever wonder why most of the time you go into a pro studio and there's a 1/4" cable waiting for you plugged into nothing but a good compressor? It's because your preamp, or amp, tone likely destroys a mix.

There is a myth floating around as well. "I you got a good sound guy or engineer, he can make ANY tone work in a mix".

Totally not true. Period. He is bound by the laws of physics just like the rest of us.

Try listening to some isolated tracks of Geddy Lee. By himself it sounds pretty awful. But it's magic in the mix.


Here's what I always suggest. Send the board something a little brighter than your favorite tone. If not, it'll be muddy mush or get buried. As a sound guy, if you send me something fairly bright I can do whatever I want with it.

I always err on the side of bright when I play live too. If the sound guy asks for more beef, I can certainly give it to him.

I actually like the isolated tone...

 

[Rompin Roddy]

There is something in that tone I like, its rich.

Same. It's actually not that trebel-y. All those extraneous buzzing and tapping sounds are perfectly confined to the sound of the bass as a whole. It sounds nicely compressed and slightly overdriven in a nice way that rolls off the real nasty high frequency stuff.

I'm not even a huge Geddy fan, but that was a buzz to listen to.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

sound good in the mix. After spending most of my gig money on preamps and and amps, in an effort to acquire a unicorn, I mean achive the perfect tone, I’ve resigned myself to the fact that it is a fools errand. Long story, I’ll try to keep it brief...skip the next paragraph, you’ll thank me later.

My first real band was a cover band back in the mid 80s. At the time, being new to the bass, it was all about volume. Ended up with a Mesa Boggie 400 and Peavey BW (210 and 15). As I “matured”I ended up with a Ric 4001 and Gallien-Krueger 800RB; traded the Mesa for the Ric and a GK 200RCB (great amp, but underpowered). This change was primarily because I was playing in a pretty decent original band at the time, getting real gigs and some actual attention. The Mesa was too heavy and needed all new tubes. As the years progressed the realization sunk in that I was destined to work 9-5 at a “real job” and just be a rock star on weekends, it became all about convenience. I was gigging most weekends and needed everything to fit in my car, so I was thrilled when class D amps emerged. In reality, they sounded pretty good (mostly played GKs and Genz-Benz, still my favorites). Three years ago I got a pretty substantial promotion and had to quite the band thing; wanted more time with the family as the kids got older. About six months ago I started a new, progressive band with a few guys in the same situation. They are all seasoned semi-pro and one pro player, best musicians I’ve ever played with. Being a progressive band, we’re playing for us knowing the gigs will be few and far between. We also decided to just write music, thus guaranteeing obscurity. So now I’m really paying attention to my tone, something I always did, but it’s my top priority now as opposed to playing gigs as a part time job. So this is what I’ve discovered and always suspected...

If I sound good by myself, I do not sound good in the mix. I’ve tweaked my tone a bunch of times, then started playing, making minor adjustments and when we’re done I find all of that tweaking I did ahead of time was for naught. I hate my tone until the band starts playing. We record every practice and even when I listen to it later the bass sounds great in the mix. I’ve read this a bunch of times on TB, but didn’t want to believe it.

Rarely does a good bedroom EQ sound good in the mix. With regard to the bassL the main reason is you tend to bump up the super lows, and cut the low mids. When you do that, in context of a band, you can’t hear it. You can only hear the low mids and above. Best to leave the super lows flat, bump your low mids, leaving your high mids and treble flat for band playing. And yep, it’s going to sound like crap by itself

 

[madbass6]

Very true. I play a Carvin LB76w now and it’s active. I also have a Yamaha TBRX505 (great, inexpensive bass IMHO) and can put it in passive mode. I noticed that the Yamaha does sit in the mix easier in passive mode.

I also wrote “skip the next paragraph, you’ll thank me later.”

good point.. Thank you.

 

[_Some Dude]

I think "sounds good" depends a little on context.

IMO, if you're always playing with bands you get used to that being the sound of your bass. Your live sound starts sounding "good" because it's what you're used to.

Meanwhile, Mr. Bedroom-Tone is going to hear it and think it sounds awful.

 

[Felken]

I have said it here a thousand times. Your bedroom tone likely sucks in a mix.

You ever wonder why most of the time you go into a pro studio and there's a 1/4" cable waiting for you plugged into nothing but a good compressor? It's because your preamp, or amp, tone likely destroys a mix.

There is a myth floating around as well. "I you got a good sound guy or engineer, he can make ANY tone work in a mix".

Totally not true. Period. He is bound by the laws of physics just like the rest of us.

Try listening to some isolated tracks of Geddy Lee. By himself it sounds pretty awful. But it's magic in the mix.


Here's what I always suggest. Send the board something a little brighter than your favorite tone. If not, it'll be muddy mush or get buried. As a sound guy, if you send me something fairly bright I can do whatever I want with it.

I always err on the side of bright when I play live too. If the sound guy asks for more beef, I can certainly give it to him.

They sound wonderful by themselves.

 

[Felken]

I don't think that's always true. Listen to this:

My god that sounds beautiful, and it works in the mix. Really, it's all about the mids. Mids are the secret to good tone in the mix.



Or maybe i'm just weird.

 

[two fingers]

Different strokes. I LOVE his tone (and playing, of course) in the mix. I'm not a huge fan of it solo. But that's just me.

The point was that they soumd completely different. Hos solo tone out of the mix takes on a whole new sound. Or vice versa.

They sound wonderful by themselves.

I don't think that's always true. Listen to this:

My god that sounds beautiful, and it works in the mix. Really, it's all about the mids. Mids are the secret to good tone in the mix.



Or maybe i'm just weird.

 

[craigie]

Personally I love geddy’s tone because it brings back memories and I listened to that music a lot in high school.

It’s also a three piece hard rock group so lots of room for him.

I also love rick danko. Now picture swapping the two. To my mind’s ear it doesn’t work either way.

 

[mannysilvers]

Personally I love geddy’s tone because it brings back memories and I listened to that music a lot in high school.

It’s also a three piece hard rock group so lots of room for him.

I also love rick danko. Now picture swapping the two. To my mind’s ear it doesn’t work either way.

I think this is one of the most under-appreciated aspects to "bass tone" out there. The other instrumentation in the band is so important. What you're guitarists/keyboard players are playing plays a massive role in what you as the bass player can play and how your bass will fit in the mix. Geddy played in a band with one guitar player. Flea played in a band with one guitar player. I play in a band with two guitarists but always make a point to minimize having either of them just chugging chords in their lower register.

As far as actual tone, I definitely agree that when in doubt, go brighter. Also if you're someone who likes to play with a bit of grit, always use more distortion than sounds good when you're soloed. Especially in recording, whenever I've recorded bass with just a touch of grit that sounds good on its own, I've always ended up adding more in post.

 

[Maynjo]

I have said it here a thousand times. Your bedroom tone likely sucks in a mix.

You ever wonder why most of the time you go into a pro studio and there's a 1/4" cable waiting for you plugged into nothing but a good compressor? It's because your preamp, or amp, tone likely destroys a mix.

There is a myth floating around as well. "I you got a good sound guy or engineer, he can make ANY tone work in a mix".

Totally not true. Period. He is bound by the laws of physics just like the rest of us.

Try listening to some isolated tracks of Geddy Lee. By himself it sounds pretty awful. But it's magic in the mix.


Here's what I always suggest. Send the board something a little brighter than your favorite tone. If not, it'll be muddy mush or get buried. As a sound guy, if you send me something fairly bright I can do whatever I want with it.

I always err on the side of bright when I play live too. If the sound guy asks for more beef, I can certainly give it to him.

I agree, the tone in that video is awful, but honestly, I don't like Geddy's tone in the mix either. I like Rush, I think he's a great player, but I've never liked his tone. It works for Rush, but I would never go for a tone like that.

 

[Artman]

I love Geddy's tone on those early albums. It's a different voice than the middle period, and the final few albums was yet another voice that I think is someplace in between the early and middle period. I love the bass tones on every one of their albums. Like every great player, his playing has it's own identity. Some will love it, some will hate it, but pretty much everybody respects it. Great stuff from a real pro.