Double Bass John Goldsby on Red Mitchell

[Don Kasper]

Man, I used to be king of OT around here in the old days and it's even one of TBDB siggies, but you have taken it to another level. Compared with you, I am but a pansy.

Gee, ever since your "BJ" comment, I thought we were free to talk about anything!

Also - Do you have any opinion or comments on the NY/LA question? Did Red foresee himself becoming just another anonymous LA session player playing (mostly) mediocre drivel for lots of money? Did Ray Brown ever regret leaving the NY scene for the security (and artistic wa$teland) of LA? I first saw Ray Brown as the featured bassist (occasionally) on "The Merv Griffin Show"(!), along with Jack Sheldon. While I can understand wanting to "get off of the road", do you think many LA players became a bit too comfortable and far removed from the cutting edge?
Do we/I need a New Thread to address these questions? I know the Management runs a tight ship around here, mostly.
Am I asking a lot of questions?
I believe I am.
Thanks?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Human profanity filter enacted until the real one is programmed. Sorry gents... no offense intended! I am enjoying the discussion, and clearly Red was a bad mothershager who played some serious shagging poopie every time he picked up a shagging bass.

 

[Paul Warburton]

Human profanity filter enacted until the real one is programmed. Sorry gents... no offense intended! I am enjoying the discussion, and clearly Red was a bad munnyfunster who played some serious shagging poopie every time he picked up a shagging bass.

I loves me some serious shagging poopie, but since I started this poopie, I'd rather talk about Red.

 

[Don Kasper]

Did Red foresee himself becoming just another anonymous LA session player playing (mostly) mediocre drivel for lots of money?

Maybe John Goldsby will chime in on this Red-Related topic.
It is my understanding that Red Mitchell left the States for Socio-Political reasons(?) - this was alluded to by RM himself, when he visited Eastman. He did not go into great depth or discuss his possible Artistic frustration regarding LA, USA, but I would love to hear if he ever discussed this aspect of his expatriation with either John or PW.(My apologies if this has already been discussed in years past - I'm a relative NewBee.)
I've run into a few older LA musicians (suce$$ful), who alluded to the artistic stagnation of the scene - referring to the 60's, 70's and 80's, mostly. (Esp. a few members of the former Johnny Carson/Doc Severinson Tonight Show Orchestra, for example.) I've also heard stories of some of Lawrence Welk's Orch., (very highly respected Musicians, BTW), who were treated VERY fairly by Mr. Welk - (on Retainer, Benefits, etc., as I recall), but who were very unfulfilled, artistically. It must have been very appealing to have access to Middle Class normalcy and stability, while making a living as a Musician, but it came with an artistic trade-off. Some things never change?
I think Red would be OK with the inclusion of this topic in a discussion of his career.
Please move it elsewhere, if you, (the Omniscient OverLords), deem it OT.
Thanks.

 

[Paul Warburton]

Maybe John Goldsby will chime in on this Red-Related topic.
It is my understanding that Red Mitchell left the States for Socio-Political reasons(?) - this was alluded to by RM himself, when he visited Eastman. He did not go into great depth or discuss his possible Artistic frustration regarding LA, USA, but I would love to hear if he ever discussed this aspect of his expatriation with either John or PW.(My apologies if this has already been discussed in years past - I'm a relative NewBee.)
I've run into a few older LA musicians (suce$$ful), who alluded to the artistic stagnation of the scene - referring to the 60's, 70's and 80's, mostly. (Esp. a few members of the former Johnny Carson/Doc Severinson Tonight Show Orchestra, for example.) I've also heard stories of some of Lawrence Welk's Orch., (very highly respected Musicians, BTW), who were treated VERY fairly by Mr. Welk - (on Retainer, Benefits, etc., as I recall), but who were very unfulfilled, artistically. It must have been very appealing to have access to Middle Class normalcy and stability, while making a living as a Musician, but it came with an artistic trade-off. Some things never change?
I think Red would be OK with the inclusion of this topic in a discussion of his career.
Please move it elsewhere, if you, (the Omniscient OverLords), deem it OT.
Thanks.

Briefly, unlike many of his fellow first call studio/jazz musicians of this era in the L.A. Studio scene, Red was relentless about his heavy involvement in the jazz scene, both as a leader and sideman. I became close to his second wife, Rosie (check out "Rosie's Spirit" on the "Hear Ye" that Red wrote for her, also on YouTube) who just passed away last year and she told me that he ran himself ragged trying to make bread and still be active creatively. During this time he was principal bass with the MGM Movie Studio Orchestra and through the contacts made there, he got the premier calls for recording with other famous artists, so no, he didn't have to play crap, finally and, granted, that took some years. IMO, his political activism began with the assassinations of the Kennedy's and MLK, but what really impacted his views on violence were the Tate/Labianca murders, because the murder scene was just down the block from Red and Rosie. Add a bit of racism from the neighborhood cops constantly stopping them because they had black musician friends in their cars and the Mitchell's had a problem. From that time on, Red refused to play on movie sound tracks that anything to do with violence. That was the beginning of the end for Red in the studios.
I always will love and respect Rosie for setting Red free to pursue his musical passions.

 

[John Goldsby]

I'll second what Paul said about Red eschewing anything that promoted or glorified violence. He was a true love-and-peace idealist. He did tell me once that the LA scene at that time was very commercial, and that he "didn't want to play second fiddle to Ray Brown." I don't think that was Red being catty, rather that he saw "his" music as something personal. Red wanted to have his own sound, to sing his own songs, to play his own solos. He hated oppression in all of its forms: social, racial and musical. He worked a lot with Andre Previn at that time, and I think a great look at the LA scene of the '60s and later is Previn's book: No Minor Chords. I noticed on that link, that one can buy the book for $0.01 . . . worth the penny!

 

[Paul Warburton]

I'll second what Paul said about Red eschewing anything that promoted or glorified violence. He was a true love-and-peace idealist. He did tell me once that the LA scene at that time was very commercial, and that he "didn't want to play second fiddle to Ray Brown." I don't think that was Red being catty, rather that he saw "his" music as something personal. Red wanted to have his own sound, to sing his own songs, to play his own solos. He hated oppression in all of its forms: social, racial and musical. He worked a lot with Andre Previn at that time, and I think a great look at the LA scene of the '60s and later is Previn's book: No Minor Chords. I noticed on that link, that one can buy the book for $0.01 . . . worth the penny!

And to add more fun to that mix, when Red decided on the conversion to fifths tuning, he did it in an amazing 9 days and his first gig was with a 63 piece orchestra with Andre Previn conducting. Holy poopie!

 

[Don Kasper]

Thanks to Paul and John for recalling and reminding us that being a "great musician" is not always just about the legacy of their notes and recordings.
Long Live Red.

 

[John Goldsby]

Here's the 3rd in the series of Bass Player articles on Red . . . this one is my tribute "in the style of." You can read the article here, and listen to the line here. Enjoy!

 

[Tom Lane]

Here's the 3rd in the series of Bass Player articles on Red . . . this one is my tribute "in the style of." You can read the article here, and listen to the line here. Enjoy!

Wow! This'll be fun to transcribe! Thanks John!

 

[John Goldsby]

Tom: The chart is right there in the article, so you don't actually have to transcribe it You *could* transcribe it, but . . .

 

[Tom Lane]

Tom: The chart is right there in the article, so you don't actually have to transcribe it You *could* transcribe it, but . . .

Yeah, I saw it. But there's not a lot of really clear, easy to hear, so articulate bass solos to transcribe, and even better, I can check my work!