Let's talk about the band Kiss, fifty years of Rock N Roll all night and party every day.

during the eighties, when the band devolved into a run-of-the-mill hair metal band.

OP and I appear to agree that "Strutter" may well be one of KISS' best songs ever, but we clearly disagree re: the 1980s, because I would argue that "Tears Are Falling" is the second-best KISS songs ever.

btw, I worked on the audio crew for their "unplugged" tour when it came to Boston in the mid-1990s. They were all really nice guys!
 
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there's a LOT of good stuff in the 80s era (especially on Asylum) "Who Wants to Be Lonely?" "King of the Mountain" ... so they used co-writers? Who cares? They still sounded like KISS (same can't be said for Aerosmith/Cheap Trick/Heart/etc)

Side note: Just finished reading James Campion's "Shout it Out Loud" and talk about a deep dive into the making of ONE album. Ezrin talks about how he had Gene lift the bassline from Freddie's Dead for Detroit Rock City (and while it was difficult, he rose to the occasion), which i can't un-hear now.
 
e5fc7f369bd8f8ede0e0785cfb8b9b67.jpg

Well, with the band having played their final show, I figured the time was right to discuss them, the music, their impact, and their legacy.

And no, I'm not going to praise them as if they were the best band ever, because they're not, heck even they themselves would acknowledge that. So I'm also going to name the low points in their 50-year history.

And let me start off with the band at their lowest: during the eighties. Gene Simmons to his own account "wasn't there" during that decade, he showed up in terrible movies and wore ridiculous wigs on stage to hide the fact that he had his hair short.
s-l1600.jpg


And having mentioned terrible movies...
hqdefault.jpg

This is what happens when the management decides to give the band members themselves NO input in what they saw as a Kiss version of "A hard days night." Paul said in his book that when he saw the finished movie at the release, that he "Wanted the earth to open up and swallow him right there and then."

As I stated earlier, Gene to his own admission "wasn't there" during the eighties, when the band devolved into a run-of-the-mill hair metal band. Paul kept the band going through sheer determination and persistence. Even if it DID result in them doing humiliating opening slots for bands that used to open for them, or making appearances where they would half-ass mime a performance.


And then we have the most recent low point.
KissAvatars.png

Taking a page out of the books by bands like Gorillaz and ABBA, Kiss have decided to replace the band and have CGI avatars do the shows. Making sure the band goes on even without physical members. Oh well, at least there are enough tribute bands doing what Kiss will no longer be doing themselves: putting up a Kiss show with live music.


Okay, that were some of the low points, let's look at what they did right.

Well, first of all, they got royal approval, Elvis totally got what they were doing and what the idea behind the makeup was, and I love how he thought that Ace'Frehley's way of playing was "X-rated"

wauc61hymez51.jpg

Kiss toured with Rush, facilitating Rush's big break. They weren't the only band who owed their carriers to touring with and opening shows for Kiss.

800927f.jpg

Iron Maiden did their first European tour supporting Kiss in 1980, Steve Harris said that he spoke with Paul extensively about the scale of the show, making mental notes on how to get it done. He later returned the favor in helping Kiss play Monsters of Rock 1988.

Wanna talk "truth in advertising?"
s-l1600.jpg

Yeah "Show of shows" is an understatement if there EVER was one. AC/DC opening up for Kiss and no doubt giving them a run for their money.

84kiss_gift1.jpg

Eeeeyup, yet another band getting their big break when playing opening slots for Kiss was Bon Jovi. Legend says that Jon asked Paul to write some songs for their then upcoming album "Slippery when wet" Paul declined but instead promised Jon to introduce him to a character called Desmond Child. I guess I only need to mention the titles "You gave love a bad name", "Bad medicine" and "Living on a prayer" will say enough on how cool of a gesture that was from Paul's side.


So how about their music? Well, as the band themselves would agree to, they weren't exactly original: you'd take Humble Pie, The Beatles, the Who and Led Zeppelin, add a good dose of Glam Rock like Slade and there we are. But when they were ON it, that did result in some pretty hard slamming songs.


Ace Frehley said that the first song the band made him play during his audition was "Deuce" and that he "Loved it from the get-go."



Likewise, when Peter Criss auditioned for the band, he was quoted as saying "Oh, I think we have something SPECIAL here." when Gene and Paul brought forth THIS one.


Now let's talk about IMPACT.
LTYzNDUuanBlZw.jpeg

Rick James with a Kramer Gene Simmons Axe bass. In addition, he also recorded a song called "Love Gun", taking the title from Kiss' 1977 album and single. Showcasing that Kiss' impact reached far beyond just rock and metal.


Parliament/Funkadelic were Casablanca records label mates of Kiss and George Clinton has admitted to taking a couple of leafs out of Kiss' book on how to put on an epic show.


But the real impact they had was inspiring young rockers to pick up guitars and starting up bands.
375902c7ab9bb116eae2ebb2829d8464.jpg

The Late great Dimebag Darrell showing his Ace Frehley Tattoo to the man himself. Dimebag was actually buried in a Kiss coffin.

BOmJgGHCYAAZKJr.jpg:large

Scott Ian showcasing his Gene Simmons Tattoo

Kiss was one of the first bands who acknowledged the fact that metal fans see themselves as a society of its own, a society of misfits and freaks. Sam Dunn, a metal fan anthropologist, saw that as his main inspiration to start his metal documentaries.




So were Kiss the perfect Rock band?

- No.

But was their music simple?

- Just try to write a good Rock song, you'll be surprised how difficult it is.

And in the end, it was always THEM on stage, not the critics who were always undermining what Kiss were doing.
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Cool Blaze. Well done.
 
I was a gigant Kiss fan from when I was eight, many moons ago. Was a member of the Kiss Army in those days. But the last good record they made was Lick It Up. Didn't like the 'Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer dressed as Ace and Peter' period at all. It felt like a betrayal. It became too much a circus and cash cow from then on.
 
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My thoughts on KISS...

I really like their debut album, their album 'Revenge' and their unplugged album. All three are really good in my opinion. The rest of their catalog is hit or miss for me. And, hopefully not completely killing my credibility here, but I also think their highly criticized album 'Carnival of Souls' is quite good and under rated.

I never liked the costumes or makeup, so the 80's - 90's no makeup KISS is my favorite.

In general I enjoy the bass playing I hear. It's more about the overall tone and how it fits the songs then anything particular that's played.

In general I've never cared much for most of the band members. I have over the years acquired an appreciation of, and a like for Paul Stanley. I also always liked Bruce Kulick.

Lastly, I think if the band continues on as Avatars, that's incredibly stupid.
 
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I was a big fan as a child and although I'll always consider myself a Kiss fan, I haven't listened to them much over the past few decades. Seen them live both masked and unmasked.

There's a great two-episode doc on Kiss up on Hulu now. Recommended.
 
e5fc7f369bd8f8ede0e0785cfb8b9b67.jpg

Well, with the band having played their final show, I figured the time was right to discuss them, the music, their impact, and their legacy.

And no, I'm not going to praise them as if they were the best band ever, because they're not, heck even they themselves would acknowledge that. So I'm also going to name the low points in their 50-year history.

And let me start off with the band at their lowest: during the eighties. Gene Simmons to his own account "wasn't there" during that decade, he showed up in terrible movies and wore ridiculous wigs on stage to hide the fact that he had his hair short.
s-l1600.jpg


And having mentioned terrible movies...
hqdefault.jpg

This is what happens when the management decides to give the band members themselves NO input in what they saw as a Kiss version of "A hard days night." Paul said in his book that when he saw the finished movie at the release, that he "Wanted the earth to open up and swallow him right there and then."

As I stated earlier, Gene to his own admission "wasn't there" during the eighties, when the band devolved into a run-of-the-mill hair metal band. Paul kept the band going through sheer determination and persistence. Even if it DID result in them doing humiliating opening slots for bands that used to open for them, or making appearances where they would half-ass mime a performance.


And then we have the most recent low point.
KissAvatars.png

Taking a page out of the books by bands like Gorillaz and ABBA, Kiss have decided to replace the band and have CGI avatars do the shows. Making sure the band goes on even without physical members. Oh well, at least there are enough tribute bands doing what Kiss will no longer be doing themselves: putting up a Kiss show with live music.


Okay, that were some of the low points, let's look at what they did right.

Well, first of all, they got royal approval, Elvis totally got what they were doing and what the idea behind the makeup was, and I love how he thought that Ace'Frehley's way of playing was "X-rated"

wauc61hymez51.jpg

Kiss toured with Rush, facilitating Rush's big break. They weren't the only band who owed their carriers to touring with and opening shows for Kiss.

800927f.jpg

Iron Maiden did their first European tour supporting Kiss in 1980, Steve Harris said that he spoke with Paul extensively about the scale of the show, making mental notes on how to get it done. He later returned the favor in helping Kiss play Monsters of Rock 1988.

Wanna talk "truth in advertising?"
s-l1600.jpg

Yeah "Show of shows" is an understatement if there EVER was one. AC/DC opening up for Kiss and no doubt giving them a run for their money.

84kiss_gift1.jpg

Eeeeyup, yet another band getting their big break when playing opening slots for Kiss was Bon Jovi. Legend says that Jon asked Paul to write some songs for their then upcoming album "Slippery when wet" Paul declined but instead promised Jon to introduce him to a character called Desmond Child. I guess I only need to mention the titles "You gave love a bad name", "Bad medicine" and "Living on a prayer" will say enough on how cool of a gesture that was from Paul's side.


So how about their music? Well, as the band themselves would agree to, they weren't exactly original: you'd take Humble Pie, The Beatles, the Who and Led Zeppelin, add a good dose of Glam Rock like Slade and there we are. But when they were ON it, that did result in some pretty hard slamming songs.


Ace Frehley said that the first song the band made him play during his audition was "Deuce" and that he "Loved it from the get-go."



Likewise, when Peter Criss auditioned for the band, he was quoted as saying "Oh, I think we have something SPECIAL here." when Gene and Paul brought forth THIS one.


Now let's talk about IMPACT.
LTYzNDUuanBlZw.jpeg

Rick James with a Kramer Gene Simmons Axe bass. In addition, he also recorded a song called "Love Gun", taking the title from Kiss' 1977 album and single. Showcasing that Kiss' impact reached far beyond just rock and metal.


Parliament/Funkadelic were Casablanca records label mates of Kiss and George Clinton has admitted to taking a couple of leafs out of Kiss' book on how to put on an epic show.


But the real impact they had was inspiring young rockers to pick up guitars and starting up bands.
375902c7ab9bb116eae2ebb2829d8464.jpg

The Late great Dimebag Darrell showing his Ace Frehley Tattoo to the man himself. Dimebag was actually buried in a Kiss coffin.

BOmJgGHCYAAZKJr.jpg:large

Scott Ian showcasing his Gene Simmons Tattoo

Kiss was one of the first bands who acknowledged the fact that metal fans see themselves as a society of its own, a society of misfits and freaks. Sam Dunn, a metal fan anthropologist, saw that as his main inspiration to start his metal documentaries.




So were Kiss the perfect Rock band?

- No.

But was their music simple?

- Just try to write a good Rock song, you'll be surprised how difficult it is.

And in the end, it was always THEM on stage, not the critics who were always undermining what Kiss were doing.
PORTADA-1.jpg

I've never been into campy entertainment.

Siegfried and Roy...KISS...what's the diff?
 
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I've never been into campy entertainment.

Siegfried and Roy...KISS...what's the diff?
Well, for one thing, Siegfried and Roy (Or to put it more correctly: Siegfried UND Roy) never had multiple platinum selling album under their belts. Nor have they ever inspired budding musicians to pick up guitars and starting bands.
 
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It was a master class in marketing, Barnum principles at work. The product was secondary, if that, but still derived from sure fire components.
Except it really wasn't...

The record company put so many resources into the band that they nearly went belly up, their manager was tens of thousands in debt. Paul had an endorsement with Gibson and in order for him to be able to put food on the table, he'd pawn those guitars as soon as he got them.

If that Live album hadn't started selling the way it did, Kiss would have been a very expensive mistake.

That live album not only saved the band, but also the other Casablanca acts like Donna Summer and George Clinton's careers.
 
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Here you are.


In the link you posted, there is a comment that quotes George Clinton in 2017 saying that Gene Simmons borrowed HIS boots from the Up For The Downstroke cartoon.

o9mgsj2.png


Also, when discussing the history of the gesture (and Gene Simmons's claim that he invented it), Clinton says in a 2004 interview that “Our costumes were made at the same place,” he adds. “And we had ours made there first!”
 
Except it really wasn't...

The record company put so many resources into the band that they nearly went belly up, their manager was tens of thousands in debt. Paul had an endorsement with Gibson and in order for him to be able to put food on the table, he'd pawn those guitars as soon as he got them.

If that Live album hadn't started selling the way it did, Kiss would have been a very expensive mistake.

That live album not only saved the band, but also the other Casablanca acts like Donna Summer and George Clinton's careers.

After that, though, Gene endeavored to exploit the band brand to extents never before seen, way beyond anything Epstein had a hand in with the Beatles. That’s what I was talking about. The first two albums were out of synch with what the mainstream rock audience expected or would tolerate at the time, but they were aging out or moving on to different music. Kiss resonated with a younger crowd who were coming up, not affected by the residual results of the Woodstock era, which were so important to even the audience of 1972 but were begining to fade away, or concerned with musical “integrity” that was so important to that earlier demographic.
The material on those first two albums was not innovative or challenging, like that of the previous seven or so years, but had enough familiar elements to have some sort of appeal to a crowd of kids that just didn’t care about the counterculture issues or musical progression going on when they were in elementary school. They sought spectacle, which was on the rise with advances in concert presentation technology and from whatever influence the glam era had(in the US), and the artsy theatricality of certain prog oriented acts.
Gene certainly took those aspects, combined it with the increasing popularity of comic book/fantasy culture at the time, and created the visual hook, which was far stronger than the audio. The third album put all that out there, accentuated that they were a live act, to be witnessed, and that kicked the door open for them.
An aging CSNY fan or fusion aficionado would have no interest, but the kids, who didn’t know or care that they were hearing warmed over Stones style riffs or cliched lead guitar postures, got taken in by the razzle dazzle. And, as always, if older people(even by just a few years)were repulsed by this band, it just made them more popular with the junior audience.
 
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After that, though, Gene endeavored to exploit the band brand to extents never before seen, way beyond anything Epstein had a hand in with the Beatles. That’s what I was talking about. The first two albums were out of synch with what the mainstream rock audience expected or would tolerate at the time, but they were aging out or moving on to different music. Kiss resonated with a younger crowd who were coming up, not affected by the residual results of the Woodstock era, which were so important to even the audience of 1972 but were begining to fade away, or concerned with musical “integrity” that was so important to that earlier demographic.
The material on those first two albums was not innovative or challenging, like that of the previous seven or so years, but had enough familiar elements to have some sort of appeal to a crowd of kids that just didn’t care about the counterculture issues or musical progression going on when they were in elementary school. They sought spectacle, which was on the rise with advances in concert presentation technology and from whatever influence the glam era had(in the US), and the artsy theatricality of certain prog oriented acts.
Gene certainly took those aspects, combined it with the increasing popularity of comic book/fantasy culture at the time, and created the visual hook, which was far stronger than the audio. The third album put all that out there, accentuated that they were a live act, to be witnessed, and that kicked the door open for them.
An aging CSNY fan or fusion aficionado would have no interest, but the kids, who didn’t know or care that they were hearing warmed over Stones style riffs or cliched lead guitar postures, got taken in by the razzle dazzle. And, as always, if older people(even by just a few years)were repulsed by this band, it just made them more popular with the junior audience.
I knew exactly what I was hearing when I was a junior audience, and I was a big Stones fan, too, and never once did I hear a song from KISS that sounded like the Stones until they covered 2000 Man on Dynasty. I still can’t think of anything they did that sounded like the Stones.

As for the marketing, Gene never would have been able to market a thing had Alive sold like the first three albums. Casablanca become a major label thanks to them.

And what’s wrong with marketing anyway? If you don’t market yourself, you won’t ever get heard. It was over the top, but I never saw Gene and Paul pull out guns and force people to buy their dolls and coffins. And none of it would have happened had they not put out music that caught on with the public. Don’t believe it? Then why did The Elder and Unmasked sell so little? Because they were lousy albums that lost the plot.

Some don’t like Kiss and that’s fine. But without the music being so good, they would now be a bunch of old farts with some funny clothes buried in their closet that they show their relatives on holidays for a laugh.
 
e5fc7f369bd8f8ede0e0785cfb8b9b67.jpg

Well, with the band having played their final show, I figured the time was right to discuss them, the music, their impact, and their legacy.

And no, I'm not going to praise them as if they were the best band ever, because they're not, heck even they themselves would acknowledge that. So I'm also going to name the low points in their 50-year history.

And let me start off with the band at their lowest: during the eighties. Gene Simmons to his own account "wasn't there" during that decade, he showed up in terrible movies and wore ridiculous wigs on stage to hide the fact that he had his hair short.
s-l1600.jpg


And having mentioned terrible movies...
hqdefault.jpg

This is what happens when the management decides to give the band members themselves NO input in what they saw as a Kiss version of "A hard days night." Paul said in his book that when he saw the finished movie at the release, that he "Wanted the earth to open up and swallow him right there and then."

As I stated earlier, Gene to his own admission "wasn't there" during the eighties, when the band devolved into a run-of-the-mill hair metal band. Paul kept the band going through sheer determination and persistence. Even if it DID result in them doing humiliating opening slots for bands that used to open for them, or making appearances where they would half-ass mime a performance.


And then we have the most recent low point.
KissAvatars.png

Taking a page out of the books by bands like Gorillaz and ABBA, Kiss have decided to replace the band and have CGI avatars do the shows. Making sure the band goes on even without physical members. Oh well, at least there are enough tribute bands doing what Kiss will no longer be doing themselves: putting up a Kiss show with live music.


Okay, that were some of the low points, let's look at what they did right.

Well, first of all, they got royal approval, Elvis totally got what they were doing and what the idea behind the makeup was, and I love how he thought that Ace'Frehley's way of playing was "X-rated"

wauc61hymez51.jpg

Kiss toured with Rush, facilitating Rush's big break. They weren't the only band who owed their carriers to touring with and opening shows for Kiss.

800927f.jpg

Iron Maiden did their first European tour supporting Kiss in 1980, Steve Harris said that he spoke with Paul extensively about the scale of the show, making mental notes on how to get it done. He later returned the favor in helping Kiss play Monsters of Rock 1988.

Wanna talk "truth in advertising?"
s-l1600.jpg

Yeah "Show of shows" is an understatement if there EVER was one. AC/DC opening up for Kiss and no doubt giving them a run for their money.

84kiss_gift1.jpg

Eeeeyup, yet another band getting their big break when playing opening slots for Kiss was Bon Jovi. Legend says that Jon asked Paul to write some songs for their then upcoming album "Slippery when wet" Paul declined but instead promised Jon to introduce him to a character called Desmond Child. I guess I only need to mention the titles "You gave love a bad name", "Bad medicine" and "Living on a prayer" will say enough on how cool of a gesture that was from Paul's side.


So how about their music? Well, as the band themselves would agree to, they weren't exactly original: you'd take Humble Pie, The Beatles, the Who and Led Zeppelin, add a good dose of Glam Rock like Slade and there we are. But when they were ON it, that did result in some pretty hard slamming songs.


Ace Frehley said that the first song the band made him play during his audition was "Deuce" and that he "Loved it from the get-go."



Likewise, when Peter Criss auditioned for the band, he was quoted as saying "Oh, I think we have something SPECIAL here." when Gene and Paul brought forth THIS one.


Now let's talk about IMPACT.
LTYzNDUuanBlZw.jpeg

Rick James with a Kramer Gene Simmons Axe bass. In addition, he also recorded a song called "Love Gun", taking the title from Kiss' 1977 album and single. Showcasing that Kiss' impact reached far beyond just rock and metal.


Parliament/Funkadelic were Casablanca records label mates of Kiss and George Clinton has admitted to taking a couple of leafs out of Kiss' book on how to put on an epic show.


But the real impact they had was inspiring young rockers to pick up guitars and starting up bands.
375902c7ab9bb116eae2ebb2829d8464.jpg

The Late great Dimebag Darrell showing his Ace Frehley Tattoo to the man himself. Dimebag was actually buried in a Kiss coffin.

BOmJgGHCYAAZKJr.jpg:large

Scott Ian showcasing his Gene Simmons Tattoo

Kiss was one of the first bands who acknowledged the fact that metal fans see themselves as a society of its own, a society of misfits and freaks. Sam Dunn, a metal fan anthropologist, saw that as his main inspiration to start his metal documentaries.




So were Kiss the perfect Rock band?

- No.

But was their music simple?

- Just try to write a good Rock song, you'll be surprised how difficult it is.

And in the end, it was always THEM on stage, not the critics who were always undermining what Kiss were doing.
PORTADA-1.jpg

Wow, that was a "deja vue" post from TDPRI !