Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
Welcome to TalkBass! Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Looking for advice
- Thread starter wintremute
- Start date
I feel the same way. I'm there to have fun, so I try to show it as much as I can
You can do better: this is a pretty good band acting as a karaoke machine for a couple of mediocre singers. Find a solid singer with good frontman skills, it'll be worth it.
I don't know if you are still looking for responses, but I'll chime in.
1) I couldn't work with pink shirt guy, even though I haven't critically listened to him.
2) Whoever singer 1 is, it sounds like you did him wrong.
3) Never let anyone use a microphone the way pink shirt guy does
4) Band was tight.
5) Tell pink shirt guy that headbanging doesn't work if you don't have long hair.
6) Listening to long haired guy solo, I wasn't impressed enough to deal with the "diva" attributes you talked about in your post.
I guess I'm in the start over category.
1) I couldn't work with pink shirt guy, even though I haven't critically listened to him.
2) Whoever singer 1 is, it sounds like you did him wrong.
3) Never let anyone use a microphone the way pink shirt guy does
4) Band was tight.
5) Tell pink shirt guy that headbanging doesn't work if you don't have long hair.
6) Listening to long haired guy solo, I wasn't impressed enough to deal with the "diva" attributes you talked about in your post.
I guess I'm in the start over category.
Last edited:
Best of luck unravelling it all!
If you do lose both of them -- at least there won't be a shortage of other singers to try out.
One of my good friends had a grunge band in the 90’s that tried the two singer thing on occasion. The main guy sounded like he was patterned after an Eddie Vedder motif and they had a second guy who would jump up and “help out” from time to time. It turned into more and more as time went on. That guy sounded a little more like Scott Weiland. The idea sounded good on paper, but... you know where this story is going.
Remember these guys? One of the only instances I know of where a band had 2 singers and it worked.
I wouldn’t feel bad about firing those 2 guys. Dr. Dre will pick them up in a heartbeat. Great talents, wrong genre.
I was being kinda sarcastic about the suicide part.
But it wasn't amazing.... to me anyway.
I read the whole post before listening. Based on what you wrote, you know which singer you want to keep.
I also couldn’t listen to the whole song. It’s not that the band sounded bad or that either singer sounded bad. It’s that unison singing is lame. LAME.
It sounds horrible. If one singer is a little off pitch it just jumps out. And any time I hear unison singing I think “lame, they can’t even harmonize.”
Guy on right singer’s mic was louder than guy on left so it was harder to hear their voices. Honestly I also don’t think it’s really fair to judge either of their singing here on a public forum. My advice is delete the video and delete this thread. Both guys have put in effort and money and deserve respect.
Splitting the songs in half is even more like “bro karaoke”. Points to both guys for working at it and sticking it out with something that’s not working and can’t work.
Unless both singers can harmonize, two singers won’t work. Better to keep the guy that was there first, and is your gut choice, and can harmonize.
Most importantly discuss with your other two band mates to come to a consensus and be tactful and respectful to both guys. It’s not personal, it just isn’t working. Of course, it will feel personal to the person cut: there’s no way around that. If the band sticks with singer 1 I’d lean heavily on the fact that he was there first and it’s unfair to oust him over this.
P.S. which is 1, which is 2?
I also couldn’t listen to the whole song. It’s not that the band sounded bad or that either singer sounded bad. It’s that unison singing is lame. LAME.
It sounds horrible. If one singer is a little off pitch it just jumps out. And any time I hear unison singing I think “lame, they can’t even harmonize.”
Guy on right singer’s mic was louder than guy on left so it was harder to hear their voices. Honestly I also don’t think it’s really fair to judge either of their singing here on a public forum. My advice is delete the video and delete this thread. Both guys have put in effort and money and deserve respect.
Splitting the songs in half is even more like “bro karaoke”. Points to both guys for working at it and sticking it out with something that’s not working and can’t work.
Unless both singers can harmonize, two singers won’t work. Better to keep the guy that was there first, and is your gut choice, and can harmonize.
Most importantly discuss with your other two band mates to come to a consensus and be tactful and respectful to both guys. It’s not personal, it just isn’t working. Of course, it will feel personal to the person cut: there’s no way around that. If the band sticks with singer 1 I’d lean heavily on the fact that he was there first and it’s unfair to oust him over this.
P.S. which is 1, which is 2?
- Oct 16, 2014
- 6,358
- 25,895
- 6,141
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Langstrom Carrot Farms
UPDATE: Had the band meeting tonight with the guitarist, the drummer, and me. Unfortunately, it went as I predicted. We talked about the current situation, and how it's not working. The guitarist brought up how he can see things from singer 1's point of view: that we added a guy as backup and now he's having to share everything 50/50 with him. We talked about the pros and cons of each singer. In the end, the drummer unsurprisingly said he has to stick by his best friend (singer 2), and his logic was that he thinks he's the better singer of the two, and that he has a lot of potential to be so much more. The guitarist also thinks that singer 2 is the better singer, and mentioned how he had become friends with him, while singer 1 is not really in contact with him and so they don't have that type of relationship. They both felt that of the two, singer 2 was the more professional. Both the drummer and guitarist were fine with getting rid of singer 1 and keeping singer 2.
I gave my two options, either keep singer 1 or get rid of both singers and look for a new one (with me preferring the latter option). When pressed, I said that it's not personal, but I just don't want to be in a band where singer 2 is the lead singer. If we were auditioning singers today, he would not get my vote. I let the drummer and guitarist know that this is completely a business decision for me, and if I leave the band it's not under bad terms, and I would love to pursue future projects with them (which I absolutely would, they're fantastic). I also said that the core of the 3 of us was very good, and we should get a singer to match.
The drummer tried to convince me that singer 2 has potential and with time I will see it. I mentioned that I don't want to take on a project that may or may not pan out. The guitarist was against getting rid of singer 2, because he didn't want to be without a singer, as that would be a step back and rehearsal wouldn't be productive. He suggested that we keep singer 2, while I look for a replacement. I said I'm not going to string anyone along and tell them "you can play with us now, but we're looking to replace you". Plus, I'm guessing that whoever I find won't be good enough for the drummer to boot his best friend.
With that impasse, I wished them well. I agreed to take a couple of days to think about it, but I really don't see me changing my mind.
I gave my two options, either keep singer 1 or get rid of both singers and look for a new one (with me preferring the latter option). When pressed, I said that it's not personal, but I just don't want to be in a band where singer 2 is the lead singer. If we were auditioning singers today, he would not get my vote. I let the drummer and guitarist know that this is completely a business decision for me, and if I leave the band it's not under bad terms, and I would love to pursue future projects with them (which I absolutely would, they're fantastic). I also said that the core of the 3 of us was very good, and we should get a singer to match.
The drummer tried to convince me that singer 2 has potential and with time I will see it. I mentioned that I don't want to take on a project that may or may not pan out. The guitarist was against getting rid of singer 2, because he didn't want to be without a singer, as that would be a step back and rehearsal wouldn't be productive. He suggested that we keep singer 2, while I look for a replacement. I said I'm not going to string anyone along and tell them "you can play with us now, but we're looking to replace you". Plus, I'm guessing that whoever I find won't be good enough for the drummer to boot his best friend.
With that impasse, I wished them well. I agreed to take a couple of days to think about it, but I really don't see me changing my mind.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 21,505
- 40,665
- 6,351
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
I only read the title and the very start,where it says that this will be a very long read...
Answer #1) Consult a good repairman.
#2) get a good teacher
#3) consult with your bandmates before letting the drummer go
#4) it's usually the player and not the instrument. Work on your playing
#5) there is no magic to reading. You just need to work on it and ideally build a routine. Things will improve!
#6) if in doubt quit or ask for more money.
#7) if you earn your own money, there should not be a reason to ask your wife or partner for permission to buy something.
Having it delivered to your work address won't work if you both have access to your internet banking.
#8) yes, it is ok to play with a plectrum, just apply it , or any other technique appropriately and don't go public before you have it down, to
avoid wasting time and public embarrassment/humiliation.
#9) I personally don't like them, but a tort pick-guard will sound as good or bad as any other.
#10) if in doubt get a P.
#11) some soundguys don't like you doing it, but running the bass directly through the PA can work really well. Just speak try to get on the soundguy's good side before asking if you can do it with his or her system.
#12) No, you do not need to put up with everything your bandleader suggests but be open for discussion before quitting if it's a good band/gig/job. If the team is good, most Bandleaders will see sense(I'd guess/hope)
#13) Shorts on a gig? ...Maaaybe not.
#14) Sandals on a gig? only if you HAVE TO.
Answer #1) Consult a good repairman.
#2) get a good teacher
#3) consult with your bandmates before letting the drummer go
#4) it's usually the player and not the instrument. Work on your playing
#5) there is no magic to reading. You just need to work on it and ideally build a routine. Things will improve!
#6) if in doubt quit or ask for more money.
#7) if you earn your own money, there should not be a reason to ask your wife or partner for permission to buy something.
Having it delivered to your work address won't work if you both have access to your internet banking.
#8) yes, it is ok to play with a plectrum, just apply it , or any other technique appropriately and don't go public before you have it down, to
avoid wasting time and public embarrassment/humiliation.
#9) I personally don't like them, but a tort pick-guard will sound as good or bad as any other.
#10) if in doubt get a P.
#11) some soundguys don't like you doing it, but running the bass directly through the PA can work really well. Just speak try to get on the soundguy's good side before asking if you can do it with his or her system.
#12) No, you do not need to put up with everything your bandleader suggests but be open for discussion before quitting if it's a good band/gig/job. If the team is good, most Bandleaders will see sense(I'd guess/hope)
#13) Shorts on a gig? ...Maaaybe not.
#14) Sandals on a gig? only if you HAVE TO.
Last edited:
You mentioned earlier that you had felt prepared to start a band because of all of the experiences you had learned about here. You then got down on yourself because this situation developed.
I think the above proves that you have in fact learned a lot. This was the correct move, imho.
Hmm. Ok, in two of the bands I'm in, I'm the lead singer (I don't play bass in either of these). In one of those bands, I'm the sole lead singer while the players all provide backing and harmonies. In the other, I share lead vocals with a female singer. The split is about 2/3rds me on lead while she harmonises and vice versa. We get along great and all is fine.
Just going by the video you posted, it's plain to see you guys are in a little bit of a mess. Musically, you're a good tight unit but, IMO, neither of your singers have what it takes to front you. I don't get any kind of stage presence from either of them and I'm not hearing anything particularly special vocal-wise.
This could partly be down to them singing in unison which, again IMO, is not a good thing, especially when neither of them is shining. The guy with the long hair looks uncomfortable and visibly annoyed at the guy in the pink shirt while the Mr Pink Shirt seems oblivious to anything other than himself. Neither of them are projecting the surety that the rest of the band are. For one thing, smoking on stage is bad enough but during a song is really unprofessional.
If it were me, I'd be pushing hard for replacing them both. The rest of you deserve better than this. If you pressed me to pick one of them, I'd say Mr Long Hair, as I think, of the two, he looks and sounds slightly more equipped to up his game without the other. If the rest of the guys insist on Mr Pink Shirt, I'd be inclined to walk away from the whole thing.
Just going by the video you posted, it's plain to see you guys are in a little bit of a mess. Musically, you're a good tight unit but, IMO, neither of your singers have what it takes to front you. I don't get any kind of stage presence from either of them and I'm not hearing anything particularly special vocal-wise.
This could partly be down to them singing in unison which, again IMO, is not a good thing, especially when neither of them is shining. The guy with the long hair looks uncomfortable and visibly annoyed at the guy in the pink shirt while the Mr Pink Shirt seems oblivious to anything other than himself. Neither of them are projecting the surety that the rest of the band are. For one thing, smoking on stage is bad enough but during a song is really unprofessional.
If it were me, I'd be pushing hard for replacing them both. The rest of you deserve better than this. If you pressed me to pick one of them, I'd say Mr Long Hair, as I think, of the two, he looks and sounds slightly more equipped to up his game without the other. If the rest of the guys insist on Mr Pink Shirt, I'd be inclined to walk away from the whole thing.
Fire them both or leave.
BTW, I'm not digging the unison singing thing. It sounds like a sing a long and not a polished singing performance.
BTW, I'm not digging the unison singing thing. It sounds like a sing a long and not a polished singing performance.
2 singers can work and be very entertaining. There must be however, good chemistry between them and in this case there clearly is not. The idea of a rhythm guitar that sings backup is not a bad idea but that isn't what you have now. You have 2 singers (relatively weak singers) competing for control of the stage and it isn't working. It is only a matter of time before people start dropping out and the band dissolves. Who ever is in charge needs to look for a new singer that is good enough by him/herself to front the band, sing the tunes, and entertain the crowd.
"Nay" on the two singers thing. I couldn't stand it more than one minute: It doesn't work and it's annoying for the listener. Would be a different story if one was actually doing backup vocals, but two dudes singing the same part in the same register simultaneously is cringy.
Given the kind of behaviour each of them has displayed and the fact that band members are not unanimous on either, I think your best course of action is to wipe the slate clean by firing them both and looking for a new one.
Or better yet, start an instrumental band and enjoy a huge drop in the drama department!
Given the kind of behaviour each of them has displayed and the fact that band members are not unanimous on either, I think your best course of action is to wipe the slate clean by firing them both and looking for a new one.
Or better yet, start an instrumental band and enjoy a huge drop in the drama department!
I book acts for a bar, sing, play keys, guitar, bass.
The double singing was not enjoyable. I listened until the first chorus to see if there was harmonies. Nope.
You know what would have made that song sound better? A keyboard pad. Wouldn't surprise me if there's one buried in the mixx of the original.
You know what's happening to band pay these days? It's going down.
The guy can sing, play some guitar, and keys? I was in a band with 1 of those guys. I considered him the most important member even though he only sang lead on 5 songs. When the band split i looked for another. Couldn't find 1 so i spent a year taking singing lessons and practicing 3 or 4 hours a day on multiple instruments to become 1.
If this is a business decision you'll cut ties with long hair, tell duece to stop drinking and take singing lessons, and play an instrument on every song.
Now my favored format is a trio with a guitarist who sings, me singing and switching off between bass and keys as needed. The less moving parts, the more money, the less chance for drama.
The double singing was not enjoyable. I listened until the first chorus to see if there was harmonies. Nope.
You know what would have made that song sound better? A keyboard pad. Wouldn't surprise me if there's one buried in the mixx of the original.
You know what's happening to band pay these days? It's going down.
The guy can sing, play some guitar, and keys? I was in a band with 1 of those guys. I considered him the most important member even though he only sang lead on 5 songs. When the band split i looked for another. Couldn't find 1 so i spent a year taking singing lessons and practicing 3 or 4 hours a day on multiple instruments to become 1.
If this is a business decision you'll cut ties with long hair, tell duece to stop drinking and take singing lessons, and play an instrument on every song.
Now my favored format is a trio with a guitarist who sings, me singing and switching off between bass and keys as needed. The less moving parts, the more money, the less chance for drama.
The long haired singer sings better, and has a better stage presence. The guy in the pink shirt can’t sing and seems disinterested.
I would keep long hair guy and look for another guitar or key player that can really sing harmony (male or female).
After that is in place for a while decide if long hair guy is kept or replaced.
I would keep long hair guy and look for another guitar or key player that can really sing harmony (male or female).
After that is in place for a while decide if long hair guy is kept or replaced.