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I'm pretty new to the bass guitar, but I'm an experienced electrical/acoustical problem solver. Guru I ain't, but it sounds to me like what you are seeking is mostly the fundamental, or low frequency "thump" like what you'd feel if you were standing a few feet in front of the kick drum when the drummer is really hammering it. Am I on the right track here?
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I was going to suggest mids as well, but also an HPF. As you said, the lowest parts of the notes are inaudible to us. I use an FDeck HPF3 to eliminate sub lows that can't be heard and that waste my amp's power trying to reproduce them. This clears up a muddy low end, making it easier to be heard, as well as giving my amp more clean headroom, essentially maki my amp "louder". It is also a speaker saver, as huge lows can damage speakers.
TLDR - Try an HPF and add mids.
I would imagine that if your looking for some good low end, the cabinet has more to do with it. Look at the Acme cabs. I believe there are others as well, more designed for the deep sound your looking for. YVMV
So flats (Chomes maybe?) and fingers then, or flats and a soft pick.
There are a lot of options for different sounds with strings, even more so than you might get with EQ.
Or try a foam mute.
For thump, once you go flat you'll never go back.
- Jan 26, 2014
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The 125-250 Hz area has a lot of "body" and helps bass push through from below most other instruments. Too much and it's muddy though, hence "equalization." I just looked at a picture of that pedal, so this suggestion isn't going to amount to jack squat if it doesn't sound good, but you could try bumping the lows a little, setting the low mid switch to 250 and bumping it up a little, and see what happens.
A typical jazz style bass with both pickups on all the way is a pretty flat, controlled sound- it's just "there." To add a little more bounce to it, experiment with lowering the bridge pickup volume (pretend it's a p bass!). Don't hesitate to use all the colors available to you by blending and/or soloing pickups, it's the reason I've never kept a single-pickup bass even though I've owned a few... I find it's the easiest way to "tune a bass to the room..." I guess I'm a control freak
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HP Filter. Nice call.
OP... here is some info that might be helpful and goes along with what a lot of folks are saying.
HIGH PASS FILTERS: getting rid of the mud and rumble - FAQ courtesy of GollihurMusic.com
There's a couple of things here, and most of them revolve around physics.
As others have mentioned, it takes a TON of energy to make low frequency waves and push them around - your Tiny Terror has power in spades, so that is likely not the issue. Adding more power won't solve for much either, since it takes 10x the power to get a perceived doubling in volume.
How frequencies interact with the room you're in is another thing to consider. All that energy likes to bounce around and pile up in corners and create dead zones in other spots, so you could be looking at a placement issue. Move your cabinet, point it to the wall that is furthest away and try not to have it square on if you can.
Smaller rooms are also pretty notorious for sucking out low end. 40Hz has a wavelength of ~28 feet, so if your room has any dimension that is roughly half of that, you could very easily be running into phase cancellation. Again, as others have mentioned and somewhat counterintuitively, using a high pass filter and cutting out the lowest lows will help you get more clarity and punch. Less power going to lows makes for more power going elsewhere (and more volume), and your brain can helpfully fill in the blanks down below.
When it comes to punch, there is simply no replacement for displacement! Move more air! Adding a second cabinet will help you get a low end boost from the coupling (~3dB IIRC), but this solution is more about surface area than speaker's ability to create a low frequency. A 410 provides about 314 square inches in surface area as opposed to 115 with roughly 176 square inches, so you're getting just over half the air movement with the 115 compared to the 410. If you're serious about declaring war, I'd go with a second 410.
Finally, your speaker's dimensions don't have much to do with their ability to reproduce low end - between the OBC410 and OBC115, the 410 is actually the deeper, bassier cabinet between the two.
Ok. I'm going to try to keep this brief. (something I have a hard time with, forgive me...)
In short, what you are missing is more sound energy output in fundamental frequency areas.
Here are few things that will help you get more of that low end. Let's start with strings.
I could make an attempt to explain this here, but Mr. Pomeroy does it better
than I ever could. I highly recommend that you watch each video in this series.
I have no affiliation with GHS, I just think these videos are well worth watching. Now, many manufacturers make flats, half rounds, round wounds, steels, etc. so if you favor one manufacturer over another, then stick with them. (as long as you can get the string type that you need) The main thing is that you know what to expect from each string type. This will help you find sound you are looking for, and it will certainly save you time and money too$$.
Next, let's look at speakers. I'm a simple guy, and I tend to look at hard facts when I'm trying to figure something out. I got the following data from the Eminence web site. Compare the low frequency output of two fairly popular speakers made specifically for bass guitar, the Legend B102, (10 inch)
and the Legend CB15 (15 inch)
Look at the graphs for each of the two speakers (10 upper and 15 lower if I did it right) and note which of the two produces greater sound pressure levels at the low frequencies from 40 Hz up to about 100 Hz. The 15 inch speaker does a considerably better job of producing sound pressure at these lower frequencies. Just like the kick drum is larger than the snare, the 15 inch speaker is better suited to producing sound at in the 40-100 Hz range. Also important is to note the higher frequency response of these two speakers. The 10 inch speaker produces sound very well beyond even 2,000 Hz and the 15 doesn't do nearly as well up there. (if at all) So of these two speakers in general, the 10 inch does well if you slap, pop, and play single note melodies and harmonic stuff on the D and G strings up near the 12th an 15th frets. But if you are looking to shake the earth, I'd go with the 15. (or maybe even consider and 18?)
In short, what you are missing is more sound energy output in fundamental frequency areas.
Here are few things that will help you get more of that low end. Let's start with strings.
I could make an attempt to explain this here, but Mr. Pomeroy does it better
than I ever could. I highly recommend that you watch each video in this series.
I have no affiliation with GHS, I just think these videos are well worth watching. Now, many manufacturers make flats, half rounds, round wounds, steels, etc. so if you favor one manufacturer over another, then stick with them. (as long as you can get the string type that you need) The main thing is that you know what to expect from each string type. This will help you find sound you are looking for, and it will certainly save you time and money too$$.
Next, let's look at speakers. I'm a simple guy, and I tend to look at hard facts when I'm trying to figure something out. I got the following data from the Eminence web site. Compare the low frequency output of two fairly popular speakers made specifically for bass guitar, the Legend B102, (10 inch)
It is really not fair to compare two speaker response graphs to determine which one will have better bass response in normal use. These graphs are useful but don't tell the whole story unless you plan to NOT mount them in a cab, or even to a baffle.
If you suspend the two speakers from the ceiling with wires, the 15 will likely have a little better low end.
But the distance you suspend them from the ceiling could even impact their response curves.
The point being that speakers are not used in an infinitely large space.
Or as they are in the lab where these graphs were generated.
You must also consider the space they are in just as much, if not more so, than the speaker itself.
If you suspend the two speakers from the ceiling with wires, the 15 will likely have a little better low end.
But the distance you suspend them from the ceiling could even impact their response curves.
The point being that speakers are not used in an infinitely large space.
Or as they are in the lab where these graphs were generated.
You must also consider the space they are in just as much, if not more so, than the speaker itself.
As some already mentioned for the bass to cut thru a bump in the lower mids (100/125 to 200/250hz) helps. Also certain basses have a more grainy quality to their sound which helps cut thru easier. A typical example is a Jazz with both pickups wide open vs. a Precision, which usually cuts better in a loud band context due to some more present and growlier mids AND low mids (the Jazz sounding more scooped).
I believe that is a sealed cabinet, yes? I solved this problem by running with a second identical 410. Fattened everything up in a great way. If you can another orange 410 to test with you might be able to prove this!
Sometimes, in a situation where I can't hear myself play, I hit the strings too hard, and I believe it constricts the sound instead making it bigger, making my strings sound like rubber bands. Kind of like when you hear an opera singer on TV. You know in the right hall, even without a mike, that voice would fill the room, but on TV that same voice sounds small, constricted, harsh, and constrained.
I believe the same thing happens if you attack a bass too hard. I'm not saying play like a wimp, being solid is paramount, but playing solidly and allowing the sound to ring out, is very different from overwhelming the instrument and gear and choking the sound.
Another factor brought up earlier by Old Garage Bander is your proximity to your gear. Most low end doesn't actually sound, until you are 20-30 ft from your amp. Sometimes you may think your low end is not there, but in back of the room, it is booming
I believe the same thing happens if you attack a bass too hard. I'm not saying play like a wimp, being solid is paramount, but playing solidly and allowing the sound to ring out, is very different from overwhelming the instrument and gear and choking the sound.
Another factor brought up earlier by Old Garage Bander is your proximity to your gear. Most low end doesn't actually sound, until you are 20-30 ft from your amp. Sometimes you may think your low end is not there, but in back of the room, it is booming
- Jan 26, 2014
- 1,525
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- I teach lessons and perform live music in and around San Diego CA. Sometimes I even make money doing it!
Agreed. I've found the solution to low end is more speakers, of any size, or a dedicated subwoofer. I have no expectation that a single 15" speaker will deliver clearer, deeper lows than say, a 410 or 212. It's more of an observation than anything I've scientifically tried to understand, but cone surface area and cab volume has much to do with it I'm sure.
Also, division of labor helps. My big gig setup is a stack of Bag End 15's. My coaxial 15 with tweeter actually does a better job of reproducing lows than my woofer-only 15, but it's not as loud. The woofer-only is more forceful, but definitely a low-mid machine, not a bowel rattler. Together... wear a diaper
This has more to do with the geometry of the room and how the pressure waves collect than some innate ability of low frequency waves to be heard close up - think of an outdoor gig and how quickly the bass loses energy as it travels. Without the walls, you're loudest / have the most energy at the source. Proximity can come into play if the pressure wave is firing past your kneecaps (no ears there), but the rest is really about whether or not your ears are parked in a peak or a null.
Before this goes into crazy town. Make life very very simple. Don't need ridiculous amount of krap n more krap to get lowend. Just the head and bass should be more than enough to where bass knob all the way up should be too much.
Having used 10" cabs exclusively for years I'll tell you in a demanding band situation a single 410 gets pushed little to its limits. To keep up and lowend will be mushy.
Its simple add another exact matching 410 and you get overhead and overall presence and lowend increases. Not to get ridiculous loud its just clarity and it only happens with 8 speakers not 4 when your trying to get any frequency below 200hz with clarity.
And no no no a 15 don't fix it the 810 formula works for a reason just get another cab.......
Or yes just check your bass and make sure pickup height is to factory spec. Cause it could get thin. Likewise USA pickups are fine. Some mim and lower level basses definitely wake up with a pickup change. I've been playing jazz bass and 10inch cab for years. That orange head has plenty of bass and power. Don't need bunch of crap in the signal chain to get bass from a jazz. Straight to amp .....amp to cab.....all done
Having used 10" cabs exclusively for years I'll tell you in a demanding band situation a single 410 gets pushed little to its limits. To keep up and lowend will be mushy.
Its simple add another exact matching 410 and you get overhead and overall presence and lowend increases. Not to get ridiculous loud its just clarity and it only happens with 8 speakers not 4 when your trying to get any frequency below 200hz with clarity.
And no no no a 15 don't fix it the 810 formula works for a reason just get another cab.......
Or yes just check your bass and make sure pickup height is to factory spec. Cause it could get thin. Likewise USA pickups are fine. Some mim and lower level basses definitely wake up with a pickup change. I've been playing jazz bass and 10inch cab for years. That orange head has plenty of bass and power. Don't need bunch of crap in the signal chain to get bass from a jazz. Straight to amp .....amp to cab.....all done