Losing faith in what Im doing.

The band you hear in the recordings is 5 years old. The vision for this started about 14 years ago.
We get along great, so the "hang" aspect is as good as it gets. That is worth so much to all of us.
our size does make it a challenge for venues and booking.
 
This may be TLDR...hopefully you will find something of value. Feel free to ignore/discard the rest.

The recordings sound very good. Way better than the vast majority off bands can do IMHO. Even better than many big time band's live performances.

However, to my ears there is something about the execution and mix that seems a bit off. What I hear does not make the performances bad. But it does IMHO prevent them from rising to the level where one might think: WOW! That's freakin' awesome! :drool::bassist:

It sort of sounds like a collection of very good musicians who are adequately covering the part, but not inspired. Or perhaps very good musicians playing outside of their specialty. Or perhaps a set of musicians who have played the songs in beyond optimum ripeness. The result is good, but not particularly magic. This is IMHO and YMMV applies. Also I am by no means implying I could do better, or even as well. It's very easy to critique beyond one's own abilities :bag: .

What do I think the biggest problem is? Probably your expectations. It's sounds like you have a very good band and get decent gigs, but you simply do not reach the level of success that you expect.

Not every club is going to hire you. Maybe they want a different style of music. Maybe they think the band is too big, too loud, or to expensive. Maybe the club manager simply doesn't like the way you look or talk.

IMHO the feedback that probably matters most is your audience. What are they saying about the band and what do they want. To get different results, you may need to target a difference audience/market where the service you provide is valued more. Seems you want an audience that is more prone to gathering in large groups and staying up late. If you want to stay in the same market, you may need to change your product to better meet local needs and expectations. The local market may not be sufficiently large or diverse to meet your definition of success.

Part of your outreach could involve using surveys to gather feedback. AFAIK you can do this for free with websites like SurveyMonkey. It would probably be useful to do a bit of research to learn how to write a good survey. Off the top of my head, related areas of study include psychology, marketing, and statistics. Writing good surveys is not easy.

Effective marketing is probably far more of a factor than the quality of your performances. It's also a fairly wide and deep subject, and there are only so many hours in a day. Probably the first step is to understand what marketing means. Here is a textbook definition:

Marketing is the performance of activities that seek to accomplish an organization's objectives by anticipating customer or client needs and directing a flow of need-satisfying goods and services from producer to customer or client.

Ref: Basic Marketing, A Marketing Strategy Planning Approach, 19th Ed.

I think an important idea is there should be a feedback loop between the band and its audience. This feedback loop tells you how the band must change to better meet audience needs. The resulting evolution could potentially morph the band into something that is quite different. At that point the band may no longer fit in with your personal artistic vision. You may perceive this as more successful from a marketing standpoint but completely inconsistent with your artistic goals. Basically greater success in one respect often requires compromise in other areas. So achieving your perfect vision of success is not necessarily possible.
 
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i spent almost 20 years playing live music in phoenix, and it’s brutal out there for bands… i feel your pain. i’m definitely coming from a different genre and perspective, but i got plenty of experience with different bands trying to grind it out in the hopes of building a following.

at this point in my life im trying to use that as a learning experience… and now if i join a band and it doesn’t start taking off within about a year i can be confident that it’s not going to make it, and i reassess how i’m spending my time and energy. not the most optimistic outlook for what is essentially an expensive hobby, but like you, i want to have fun, which means playing decent shows and getting people excited
 
I did a quick listen, and I think it sounds great. Also, this type of music seems to be having a bit of a revival. Bands like Couch, Lawrence, Sammy Rae and the Friends, etc and having some success. You didn't post any live videos. What's the audience interaction like? I'd really like to see how that goes over. You also don't mention where you are, geographically.
I dig all those bands and I have tickets to see Lawrence on their current tour, which is selling out everywhere. What sets those acts apart is live energy, with tons of stage presence and charisma on top of a very musically-mature set. You also hear a pretty strong jazz influence and, especially with Lawrence, they walk the like perfectly between "Interesting songs that are not totally predictable" and "Accessible music that you can sing along with after hearing it for the first time."

It's a tough genre because tons of musicians want to be the next Snarky Puppy and get paid to play their own funky arrangements, but if your primary audience is musicians you have to be virtuosos and also really great at marketing, and if you just want to play dance music you are going to compete with a wide pool from disco bands to top-40 bands to garage band "We like to jam on funk stuff" dudes who don't even care if they get paid.

To the OP, maybe it's time to do a side project. Go in a totally different direction, even with different players, and give yourself some context. If you find that your funk band can't get into Club X but your blues trio gets booked right away that tells you something. Or maybe there's some personal drama that is impacting bookings, too.
 
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I would like your input into my dilema.

My current project was started 12 years ago. It took that long to assemble it to the players we have now.
We play a mix of funk/soul/blues based original music and covers (Aretha, James Brown, Sly, winehouse etc).
For years, we have had trouble gaining traction with any type of following. We do have some fans, but not a following.
The only time we pack the house is when we tax our people.
We self promote and have tried working with booking agencies.We have played festivals, bars, clubs, corporate events, etc. There are a handful of clubs that will not entertain us. They won't say why, so I'm left to wonder.
I am beginning to doubt our product. We all believe in what we're doing. We continue to put solid work into our performances. We take the stage as professionals and take our shows seriously.
Are we just in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Do we suck?
Is the music just not interesting?
Perhaps some advice?
Honest opinions welcome.



I’m in the same situation as you and I think the audience that listens to that material just doesn’t go out to clubs anymore. I’m playing material that I really don’t care to listen to just to go out and play because I like playing.
 
Do we want to tour nationally? No
Do we want to be popular locally and play regularly? Yes
Sadly I think the kind of nightclub gigs a horn band used to get are drying up all over. I did ok with a 9-12 piece Tejano band in the Portland area in the 90s, but there's not much regular work out there today for anybody, even the rock trios and quartets. There will always be the "play for exposure" or "band leader pays the players out of his pocket" gigs out there, because everybody wants artists to work for free.
And, as someone pointed out are slowly being replaced by DJ's
Our sound, however it may be described, has a life of its own.
If you're competing with DJs and karaoke you can't win.

I think you have to play up that "life of its own" to differentiate yourselves. Anodyne funk and soul can come off as sterile if you don't push it around the edges IMO. It's gotta be dangerous, a little hard, unpredictable. Roll it around in the dirt a little. Have a band member develop an addiction marked by erratic behavior or something fun like that.🤪 (OK maybe don't go that far)

Really sounds like it's just the business side that isn't popping for you guys (supply and demand). You can induce some amount of demand with self-promotion, but you've got a limited total-addressable-market in Phoenix, it sounds like.

Ultimately it comes down to diminishing returns the more players a venue has to pay. Clubs just want to cover their nut and sell booze, and a 4-piece guitar band is cheaper, easier and more predictable to book and stage.
 
Great feedback from all.
This is really just a group of part time musicians getting together weekly and writing music.
Do we want to tour nationally? No
Do we want to be popular locally and play regularly? Yes.
Maybe there is no audience for us?
We are definitely a dance band.
And, as someone pointed out are slowly being replaced by DJ's
Our sound, however it may be described, has a life of its own.
I am the primary idea maker (I don't know what to call it). I come in with an idea, we jam, then collaborate.
After listening I would say that you are not a dance band. You want to be a dance band but there is no groove. There is too much syncopation, especially between the bass player (you?...sorry) and the drummer, but the guitarist, too.

You guys are obviously good musicians. I would urge you to listen to the live version of "I want Your Love" by Chic. What a groove.

And, depending on your clientele, 30% covers is probably way too low. People love to dance to old Soul and R&B songs that they know.. Play more reliable dance songs.

Best of luck!
 
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Our covers represent 30% of our set.

We do nat have any produced videos. That sounds like a good idea.

Most of the venues in the last year or so have stopped doing their own booking. Now, they have gone to using low paying agencies. We have refused most shows because the pay scale is going the wrong way.
If you are doing only 30% covers, that might be one of your problems. Corporate/weddings gigs definitely aren't the place for originals unless you are the artist they hired for your originals.
 
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You have a good band and material that needs to play in another town . You would do really well in England or Europe . Think about doing USO tours ......Hawaii is close . ;)
 
I would like your input into my dilema.

My current project was started 12 years ago. It took that long to assemble it to the players we have now.
We play a mix of funk/soul/blues based original music and covers (Aretha, James Brown, Sly, winehouse etc).
For years, we have had trouble gaining traction with any type of following. We do have some fans, but not a following.
The only time we pack the house is when we tax our people.
We self promote and have tried working with booking agencies.We have played festivals, bars, clubs, corporate events, etc. There are a handful of clubs that will not entertain us. They won't say why, so I'm left to wonder.
I am beginning to doubt our product. We all believe in what we're doing. We continue to put solid work into our performances. We take the stage as professionals and take our shows seriously.
Are we just in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Do we suck?
Is the music just not interesting?
Perhaps some advice?
Honest opinions welcome.



I dig those songs man, and I'm just some dumba$$, but I'm sayin stick with it, as someone said above, for the love.
 
I would like your input into my dilema.

My current project was started 12 years ago. It took that long to assemble it to the players we have now.
We play a mix of funk/soul/blues based original music and covers (Aretha, James Brown, Sly, winehouse etc).
For years, we have had trouble gaining traction with any type of following. We do have some fans, but not a following.
The only time we pack the house is when we tax our people.
We self promote and have tried working with booking agencies.We have played festivals, bars, clubs, corporate events, etc. There are a handful of clubs that will not entertain us. They won't say why, so I'm left to wonder.
I am beginning to doubt our product. We all believe in what we're doing. We continue to put solid work into our performances. We take the stage as professionals and take our shows seriously.
Are we just in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Do we suck?
Is the music just not interesting?
Perhaps some advice?
Honest opinions welcome.



If you want to have a slamming funk band, you need a slamming drummer.

Your guy (presumably) is good, but doesn't have the get-with-me-or-get-out-of-the-way needed. Did you record those tracks with a click? ...because it doesn't sound like it.
 
Something is off in the groove/pocket on the first track. I felt like the drums and rhythm guitar sounded great but when the bass came in something went wrong. Not sure who to blame here. Bass is too high in the mix as well but the tone is nice.

With that said, 12 years is a long time, and as others said it is very hard to book a large band on a frequent basis and expect to be paid. Probably time to put it on the shelf and take a break to recharge the batteries.
 
From what I have read on this thread so far. I think the problem is basically the genre you play vs the market you play in. They're definitely not on the same page. You can't sell kool aid if everyone is buying water. Nothing wrong with the skill levels involved in the band for sure. Y'all are tight.

I think back to the 1990s and a band from Birmingham, AL called Brother Cane. They actually had a hit, "And Fools Shine On", that stayed in the #1 spot for 6 weeks on Billboards Rock Charts. That song was also on the soundtrack for the movie "Halloween: The Curse of Michael Myers"

They were together from 1990 - 1998

1993 "Got No Shame" charted up to #2
1994 "That Don't Satisfy Me" made it to #6
1994 "Hard Act to Follow" #12
1995 "And Fools Shine On" #1
1995 "Breadmaker" #25
1996 "Voice of Eujena" #30
1998 "I Lie in the Bed I Make" #1
1998 "Machete" #12

The problem though was Brother Cane was a rock band and they came on the scene during the Grunge explosion. Great band, lots of talent, great music, chart topping music, but wrong time, wrong place. They just never could take off like rock bands had done in the past. If you asked him, Damon Johnson, the band's leader, he would tell you the same thing, wrong time, wrong place.
I have a signed concert poster from Brother Cane. I never really knew much about them, until now.
 
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I believe that most live audiences prefer music that they recognize, because it brings back memories of where they were, or who they were with, or both. I’m not saying your music isn’t good. It is. I’m saying that if you were playing Earth Wind and Fire, James Brown, Tower of Power, Sly Stone, etc, you might have more interest. Maybe you have done that, or maybe you don’t want to do that, and that’s your choice. Playing a genre of music without the title recognition is a hard sell.
 
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You guys sound good and play well, however the whole thing feels damn old.
This is basically music from 50 years ago at its roots, 35 if you count newer iterations and sounds from the early 90's a la Jamiroquai or Keziah Jones.
It would be fine for covers but you can't expect to drag young audiences with new material sounding like this.

Your recipe needs some magic. My first thought would be to find a DJ to bring entertainment value and less conventional textures.
Loops could work well too and they're easy to implement. Keyboard could switch from straight organ to more synthy tones. Arpeggiators and filters can do wonders to freshen up a band.

Since you're blessed with horns, you could get them to play way out of the box with effects, cross melodies or a modal approach.
Thinking about bands like Osibisa or Triple H Horns here. Listen to them if you can.
The 3 girls behind Beyonce are damn talented and distinctive, too. They go from 80's rock to fusion to funk in seconds.
 
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Here's an example to let you know what I mean. Borrow a phat fuzz pedal from your guitar player and use it over On a Feather.
Be obnoxious, not subtle. You may need to play less ghost notes and more quarter notes, as a result you may sound less groovy but it won't be an issue, since your guitar player and drummer are spot on.
The result would not be better or worse, just different. it would change the dynamics and balance of the band. You bring an element of surprise and the song becomes more distinctive because of it.
 
I meant to say we play%30 original and the rest covers. Thanks everyone for your honesty. It’s what I need to hear.
In that case, I got nothin’.
I play in a string trio doing acoustic folk from the 60s and 70s. Guitar, bass and mandolin. We try to book ourselves into appropriate venues, like patios, farm markets, brew pubs and the occasional nostalgia festival. I sometimes feel like we’re just wallpaper, but then after almost every gig some kind soul comes up and tells us how much they enjoyed our show. It’s enough to keep us going. Our audiences want to talk amongst themselves, and they don’t want to have to shout to be heard. The days of the rapt teenies staring at us while we play at 120 dB are long gone, and they’re not coming back.