He used an Acoustic 360/361 but played a Jazz bass after the (I think) the second album, he also had a P bass pickup on that EB-0. Get a real 60's-70's EB-0 pickup, unless you're sure they're wound to something like 25-30K
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marshall super bass: can you get that mel schacher fart?
- Thread starter bon viesta
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- marshall mel schacher
He used an Acoustic 360/361 but played a Jazz bass after the (I think) the second album, he also had a P bass pickup on that EB-0. Get a real 60's-70's EB-0 pickup, unless you're sure they're wound to something like 25-30K
I saw Mark a little bit after I saw GF. Same set list. I liked Mark a little better BUT his bass player was a Huge disappointment !!!Yeah, I've seen him with Zon for a while now, disappointing. He sounded good with P basses too but not as good as that Jazz with the big ol' Humbucker. I saw Farner out here with his own band a few years ago, the bassist also used a Jazz and had a real modern sound which I thought sucked for that music, I wanted to grab the bass and show him how it's done.No encore either and the audience was really yeling for one, not sure what was going on, but he didn't seem real happy up there.
Love Mel’s tone on the live album and e plurbis.
As others have said the bass pickups play a big part but I’ve had great success with an HX stomp patch I made and a bass with a bucker in the neck position.
Absolutely nails it!
As others have said the bass pickups play a big part but I’ve had great success with an HX stomp patch I made and a bass with a bucker in the neck position.
Absolutely nails it!
OK. I have read the whole thread, but not a single one of you mentioned the Big Muff pedal that he used.
So here's the essential list.
1. EBO pickup sans choke in the neck position.
2. Big Muff pedal.
3. Custom West amps (modified Dynaco's) into multiple 12" drivers.
I am not sure what strings he used.
So here's the essential list.
1. EBO pickup sans choke in the neck position.
2. Big Muff pedal.
3. Custom West amps (modified Dynaco's) into multiple 12" drivers.
I am not sure what strings he used.
What source of information did you get that he used a Big Muff? In this first archaival video, while the sound isn’t all that great, you can clearly see his coily cord drooping from his bass on up directly to the amp…
From roughly the same time period, a more controlled environment with better sound…
That is amp distortion, a sound I knew well around then, as my first real rig was a Sunn Sorado…I could always approximate that Mel tone by cranking it, even with just a P. As the West amps were based on Sunn design(yes, the Dynaco transformers), it was inevitable. There really weren’t that many bass players using an actual fuzzbox on a regular basis in those days; Tim Bogert and Soft Machine’s Hugh Hopper were the only ones I noticed. There’s too much bottom to Mel’s sound, something that those old fuzzes would have filtered out. Otherwise, bass fuzz use was sporadic, or else just the result of overdriven amps. Jack Bruce had a diode installed in his Gibson for a little more push.
Other than that, has the urban myth that roadies would have to change out Mel’s fried tubes in the middle of the show ever been substantiated? Or did it maybe happen once, and then get blown out of proportion?
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He's ( GF) are still out their. Gotta be a way to reach out to him !?. We Need a Rig Rundown !!!!
It's a known fact that he used one in the studio to add a little dirt to his sound. I don't know if he ever used it for live shows however.
I attended several of their live shows in the 70's, and found that his rig sounded distinctly cleaner than the studio recordings, so theres that.
I realise that the OP was specifically referring to the early live album (1970?) that I do have. From what I remember from attending their show a few years later ('72), his amps were audibly overdriven, just to the edge of his speakers distorting, but a bit shy of the added dirt you hear on their recordings up to that point.
I believe the West amps were pretty much a Fender pre amp driving a Sunn output section.
The earliest amps were modified Dynaco's. But it wasn't long before they were using more powerful amp modules (SUNN?).
But by '72, they were using full SUNN headamps.
But by '72, they were using full SUNN headamps.
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You completely misrepresented everything I said! He did use the Big Muff on several of their studio albums, but not live as far as I know.
I have used one for decades dialed in just above the threshold of audibility (just as he did) which doesn't affect our bottom end.
E Pluribus Funk is the album where it is the most audible.
Here's a good long thread about his sound, starts in 2001 and ended about a year ago, that L.O.U.D. paragraph down below gives a hint about his sound too. West amps had a L.O.U.D. switch. I just read the whole six columns of the thread and no one mentioned a big muff or any distortion device in fact.
What did Mel Schacher use?
This is also from that thread:
"Yes, the L.O.U.D. mod (from the catalog):
L. O. U. D. =
L = Locked-in
O = Optimum
U = Ultra-Gain
D = Device
L. O. U. D. eliminates the cut functions of the tone controls and at the same time removes the phase distortion inherent in all tone control circuits. It increases the audible frequency response giving a richer fuller tone. This device does not increase the power of the amplifier, but allows full power to be obtained with a smaller input signal. This means the amplifier will sound at least TWICE AS LOUD."
What did Mel Schacher use?
This is also from that thread:
"Yes, the L.O.U.D. mod (from the catalog):
L. O. U. D. =
L = Locked-in
O = Optimum
U = Ultra-Gain
D = Device
L. O. U. D. eliminates the cut functions of the tone controls and at the same time removes the phase distortion inherent in all tone control circuits. It increases the audible frequency response giving a richer fuller tone. This device does not increase the power of the amplifier, but allows full power to be obtained with a smaller input signal. This means the amplifier will sound at least TWICE AS LOUD."
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It's likely that he didn't use a fuzz box during their West era ('68 to '70). But the cleaner amps they used later needed a little help.
This would explain its absence.
This would explain its absence.
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Once again, I will ask you to cite your source on the supposed Big Muff use. In 1972, while he had switched to a P bass, West amps were still on stage…
Plus an album cover shot from that time(Farner had moved to the Microfrets guitar)…
And a single pic sleeve….
I don’t see any Sunn equipment; Dave West may have copied Sunn cosmetics as well as the circuitry, but there still are marked differences.
I saw them in 1974; Farner had ditched the Apache look, had a silver Velano guitar, Mel had a Gibson bass, but there was no Sunn equipment then either…I definitely would have noticed. With the addition of Craig Frost on keys by then, yes Mel did dial back the buzz, but part of that was that he didn’t have to push his amps to fill in space any more, plus their drift away from the typical power trio sound.
About West amps in general…
How the Tiny Amp Brand Behind Grand Funk Railroad’s Potent Hard-Rock Sound Became a Force to Be Reckoned With
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I read that he was using one in the studio. you can clearly hear it on Pluribus along with his modified Jass bass.
The P-bass may have been introduced in some of the shows in '72, but I believe that We are an American band was the first time it was used in the studio.
I witnessed him using SUNN amps at the '72 Denver show, And an SVT rig in '73 along with a P-bass.
His sound did change as the seventies went on, I've always thought that it was because of the change to a P bass which is a big difference from a Gibson EB-0 pickup in a Jazz, no matter what those things (pickups) are in they sound the same. To me his ultimate tone was the red album released in 1970 which sounds almost exactly like that live 1969 video Michedelic put in above. There is little to no distortion on the first album On Time.
If I were going for his tone I'd shoot for the Red album tone. I guess the only way to know would be to find his website and ask him through email, I've done that with certain old bassists and they've answered, David Hungate answered me once and it wasn't even him on the track but did know who played it and what they used.
If I were going for his tone I'd shoot for the Red album tone. I guess the only way to know would be to find his website and ask him through email, I've done that with certain old bassists and they've answered, David Hungate answered me once and it wasn't even him on the track but did know who played it and what they used.
Those West/Sunn amps were "ultralinear" (referring to the way the output section is wired).
The only currently produced ultralinear tube amps I'm aware of are Traynor YBA-300 and YBA-100, but neither has a Fender style preamp, and they both have refinements in the power section that make them sound very different from old Schacher (though the 300 is the only one I've heard myself, and the cabs were responsible for a lot too).
Are there any more, currently?
The only currently produced ultralinear tube amps I'm aware of are Traynor YBA-300 and YBA-100, but neither has a Fender style preamp, and they both have refinements in the power section that make them sound very different from old Schacher (though the 300 is the only one I've heard myself, and the cabs were responsible for a lot too).
Are there any more, currently?
Ashdown CTM 100, 200, 300 have ultra-linear outputs.
They use a tricked-out Fender tone stack...but IMHO they are not voiced like a Fender. These are incredible sounding amps, but to be honest the tone stack rotary controls are not very intuitive over much of their useable range. Turning a knob may produce the opposite of what you expect, or no perceivable change.
Eventually I learned a trick. Set the rotary controls to 9:00 and adjust up and down +/- 2. Within that range the controls behave in a fairly predictable manner, and there are a lot of great sounds.
The push buttons are much more intuitive and make pretty significant changes.
(Like the Traynor YBA-100 and 300), the Ashdown CTM's driver section is *much* more solid than the West amps.
The West preamp and driver are very, very close to (one channel of) a Fender Deluxe AB763.
The West preamp and driver are very, very close to (one channel of) a Fender Deluxe AB763.
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