Music Man sound and pickups

[mcnach]

What use would centre detents have on a 2 band preamp? They'd have absolutely no bearing on the function.

for reference.

 

[Wood and Wire]

When I sit down to play my two band StingRays it's really nice to be able to quickly figure out the middle of the range using a detent. Am I allowed to have a personal preference?

I’m simply pointing out that the reason the 3 band EQ has a centre detent, is not because there’s a 50% value; it’s unity gain, where the preamp is neither boosting, nor cutting the frequency range.

It has a 100% cut range, and a 100% boost range (ie 100% of XdB) each having 50% throw of the pot.

I’d hate for you, or anyone else to waste the time, and money doing an invasive modification of their 2 band preamp, under the assumption that it would mean that the detent equated to unity gain, or 50% boost.

 

[-Boscoe-]

I’m simply pointing out that the reason the 3 band EQ has a centre detent, is not because there’s a 50% value; it’s unity gain, where the preamp is neither boosting, nor cutting the frequency range.

It has a 100% cut range, and a 100% boost range (ie 100% of XdB) each having 50% throw of the pot.

I’d hate for you, or anyone else to waste the time, and money doing an invasive modification of their 2 band preamp, under the assumption that it would mean that the detent equated to unity gain, or 50% boost.

And I wasn’t talking about any of that. I just answered his question (for 2 bands).

He has a MM StingRay from the 90s, so it’s not an Old Smoothie. Unless my understanding of StingRay genealogy is wrong it has pots with center detents, which he is looking to replace, thus my request.

You seem knowledgeable, do you know a vendor that sells those pots in lots less than 500? Thanks.

 

[Wood and Wire]

I just answered his question (for 2 bands).

He has a MM StingRay from the 90s, so it’s not an Old Smoothie. Unless my understanding of StingRay genealogy is wrong it has pots with center detents, which he is looking to replace, thus my request.

Only the 3 band has ever had centre detents; the 2 band has never had them, as they would bear no relationship to the functionality of the preamp.


BTW, @Leigh Semmens question seems to be about his son in law's dual humbucker (2 H) StingRay, rather than 2 band preamp - though confusingly he says it's from the 90's, which is about a decade before the HH StingRay was introduced.

Either the date is wrong, or it's a Sabre.

 

[Leigh Semmens]

Could be the date is wrong, We did look it up, but I might be mistaken. I'll ask him when next I see him

 

[Leigh Semmens]

I was wrong on one count it's a single 'bucker from '94.

 

[BassLife77]

I am a retired electronics technician, two degrees and over 50 years experience modifying basses and amps. I have also been playing bass for over 50 years. The bass I have owned the longest is a 1977 Stingray. My most recent purchase is a 2020 BFR Stingray Special fretless 5 string.

To fill the gap left by companies who used to market versions of the original pre-EB Stingray preamp, I had circuit boards professionally made and use high quality components, including a clone of the original (60+ year old) 4250 opamp. I sell these preamps on the usual sites, including the Talkbass classifieds.

The old 2-band preamp is unique. As Tony P accurately described above, the sound comes from the combination of pickup and preamp. One or the other will NOT do the job. Leo designed the pickup/preamp combination by trial and error, which explains why the controls have no center detent and why some people think the preamp only provides boost. I go into more detail and explain all this in my ad for the preamp.

I specialize, mostly for fun and some minor profit, in upgrading Sterling by MusicMan (SBMM) Ray4 and Ray5 basses by upgrading the pickup and preamp, defretting the bass, and "murdering" them by changing the chrome hardware to black. I generally defret the bass because there are no high quality fretless MM-style basses under $600. Depending upon model and style, I usually resell these for anywhere between $499 and $599. I sell the preamp, fully wired and tested, with all controls and battery clip for $99 (free shipping).

I started doing this because my own 2013 Ray4 was light and fun to play, but had awful tone. The pickup was WAY too hot and the preamp prone to distortion. Replacing pickup and preamp turned it into a great sounding, great playing bass.

A while ago, LowEndLobster, my favorite YouTube bass reviewer, had a shootout to determine which drop-in replacement pickup recreated the sound of the original Stingray Alnico pickup most accurately. He came up with two, and I have since found another one.

He found, and I completely agree, that the two best are the Aguilar 4M (for Ray4s) and the Nordstrand MM4.2 (Ray4s) and 5.2 (Ray5s). Recently Guitar Fetish got their excellent KP - GFS MM Pro Plus pickup (Ray4s only) with Alnico magnet which comes in at $38 plus shipping, less than half the cost of either the Aguilar and Nordstrand.

I have been doing these mods in one form or another since 2013 and have had nothing but excellent reviews.

I will be glad to answer any questions on any of these things. Just PM me. - Bud

I built several Stingray and Sabre preamps and found out the Sabre build sounds better. It has a 1nF cap in the tone stack instead of 500pF and the mids sound better. Also they used the LM4250 only because of its low current draw because the first Stingrays always stayed on. There are a lot better opamps like the LT1351

 

[TriumphRider99]

I built several Stingray and Sabre preamps and found out the Sabre build sounds better. It has a 1nF cap in the tone stack instead of 500pF and the mids sound better. Also they used the LM4250 only because of its low current draw because the first Stingrays always stayed on. There are a lot better opamps like the LT1351

Sound is subjective. What sounds better to you may not to someone else. The original Stingray preamp was a seat-of-the-pants design. The 4250 was not chosen solely for low current draw. It was also chosen because it's poor slew rate enabled the circuit to roll off the high frequencies without circuitry. The 1351 is certainly more modern, but it isn't necessarily "better." It depends on what you mean by "better." Everyone who has bought one of my clones of the original loves the tone, antique op amp or not.

 

[-Boscoe-]

Sound is subjective. What sounds better to you may not to someone else. The original Stingray preamp was a seat-of-the-pants design. The 4250 was not chosen solely for low current draw. It was also chosen because it's poor slew rate enabled the circuit to roll off the high frequencies without circuitry. The 1351 is certainly more modern, but it isn't necessarily "better." It depends on what you mean by "better."

Exactly. Leo knew what he was doing and he could have easily used a Baxandall style design if he just wanted a preamp.

The fact that he didn’t, and that he also used a different pickup design makes it very clear that his choices were deliberate and not just cost saving.

 

[TriumphRider99]

Exactly. Leo knew what he was doing and he could have easily used a Baxandall style design if he just wanted a preamp.

The fact that he didn’t, and that he also used a different pickup design makes it very clear that his choices were deliberate and not just cost saving.

Nice to meet you. If I am correct, you also make preamps for Stingray-like basses. I've been doing that for a couple of years. I'm a retired electronics tech who is also a bass player, and for over 30 years my '77 Ray was my only bass.

I got started building preamps when I got sick and tired of the pickup and preamp in my 2013 SUB 4. I unoriginally wanted to make my SUB sound more like my "real" Ray which I could no longer play due to lower back surgery. The plans for the old criginal pre-EB circuit was all over the 'Net. I haven't changed the design any, but I have been working on increasing flexibility and reliability. The next version will incorporate some SMD components as well as screw terminals on the ends. It's fun and keeps my mind engaged.

Anyway, I hope I have introduced myself to the correct person....

Bud

 

[-Boscoe-]

Yep, that’s me! Great to meet you as well.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Exactly. Leo knew what he was doing and he could have easily used a Baxandall style design if he just wanted a preamp.

The fact that he didn’t, and that he also used a different pickup design makes it very clear that his choices were deliberate and not just cost saving.

Thomas Walker.