Ah, damn...
Obviously I didn't read your post proper though before responding.
Classic me, and millions of other idiots online.
Sorry.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
Welcome to TalkBass! Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
My Dirt Bender - Another Jounal
- Thread starter el murdoque
- Start date
Obviously I didn't read your post proper though before responding.
Classic me, and millions of other idiots online.
Sorry.
At least we both ended up on that post in the Telecaster forum.Ah, damn...
Obviously I didn't read your post proper though before responding.
Classic me, and millions of other idiots online.
Sorry.
I don't have much to add that the others haven't already covered. The feel, how the pedal goes into OD ... i think clipping and symmetry should be mentioned.
I tend to think (very simplistically) that pedals going for an amp-like OD are tube-based or trying to emulate tube-based OD. Smooth OD, some natural compression, symmetric,will go from light break-up to heavier OD, doesn't sound very harsh. Pedals can also go for the "console" sound - harsher, more abrupt clipping, asymm, etc. Pedals, of course, can also change things up with different/multiple transistors and clipping options (silicon, germanium, optical), but IME they generally fall into smooth/harsh symmetrical/asymm, or some combo thereof (looking at the Jive).
That's a gross simplification, but I think that is what ppl refer to.
I'm amazed at how much good info there is in that Telecaster forum
I’m along this line of thinking. More dynamic control with tubey amp like. With an overdrive pedal, it seems to me no matter what level of overdrive, it’s just there pretty much regardless of dynamics.
It's primarily a feel/response thing for me, moreso than sonic. And maybe I'm not the best reference for chiming in on this topic, since I've almost always used tube amps (initially an Ampeg B-18-N, then a much more practical Orange Terror Bass). Or, for the last two years or so, running a tube preamp on my board and feeding a SS amp (D-350). In that respect, I've always used overdrive pedals to push the tube(s) (set for edge of breakup) into fully driven sounds. Haven't really focused energy on finding an "amp-in-a-box" dirt pedal as a result of this methodology. So I've tended to look for pedals that largely preserve the sound/character of my bass and amp, rather than imparting any special colour of their own; I just want the pushed feel of the amp (and light sag/compression that comes with it).
Flattered to have been asked amongst such august company …
I think your distinction has merit, but like everything else in this game (and probably every other, to be fair), the dividing lines are fuzzy, distorted, and likely overdriven. Is there an amp feel? I’ve not had a huge number of amps, but those few have felt different enough when pushed that I’d struggle to lump many of them together, and I don’t think it’s quite as simple as solid state vs tube vs digital vs …, although as is the case with many broad-based heuristics, it’s a reasonable place to start, and the rest is Talkbass.
In my limited experience, most “straight” overdrives will give some sort of push-pull in response to playing dynamics, bass tone and volume settings, other elements of the signal chain, and so on. Some of those are self-consciously designed (or at least marketed) to be amp-like, others not so much, and still others have that badge awarded to them by fans.
Probably the most honest response would be that I have no f$*€ing idea, but I know what I hate
There are certainly a lot of design approaches to achieving an overdrive circuit. To my mind an "amp style" either uses an amp topology for the circuit or is designed to replicate or mimic a particular amp type, style, model or brand. "Pedal style" are more generic often meant to work in conjunction with an amps circuit to enhance the sound.
Amp Style pedals include Tech 21 Sansamp Joyo "Sound" series, many of the @Sushi Box FX, Master Effects, UA and others designed to replicate the sound of an amp.
Pedal style like the ubiquitous Tube Screamer, Boss SD1, Nobels ODR , and ad nauseum.
Some pedals fall somewhere in between like the Fuzzrocious BDPG or Li'l Fella, EHX Hot Tubes and my trusty old modified DanElectro Daddy-O that have the best characteristics of both types.
For me it comes down to how it feels and sounds in how rich and nuanced the saturation responds, if it is dynamic as well as having additional options for sound or tone to fit the needs of the moment.
Full disclosure, I'm a hobby player, so how things sound to me, are in isolation, and not in the context of a band.
My thoughts on amp vs pedal overdrive.
To me, it boils down to feel.
Pedal overdrive is more obvious to me, even though it may sound great.
Amp like has a certain feel to it.
I've pushed my amps to the point of breakup.
I know that sound.
@el murdoque To add a truly humble offering to the mix, you've gotta give a try to a Danelectro Daddy-o pedal. It's got a full 3-band EQ, so could potentially be made to work for a bass, despite its guitar origins. Now that we are heading down (for now, anyways) the far side of the Cork Sniffing Mountain Range, I think this is a great shout for potential surprise package.
I have a Grizzly.
It's an odd one to me.
Yes, it sounds good, but you get out what you put in.
As in, there's no coloring to my ears.
You're not going to be able to add a "sheen" or glassy-ness like you would if it were a fender tonestack.
You can only cut mids and highs.
To me, these help shape the drive and cut harshness.
I do think we all are in agreement on how an amp like pedal should feel vs. an overdrive pedal. That comes as a bit of a surprise to me, but it makes things a lot easier, knowing that others have (at least roughly) the same idea of what to expect when someone uses the term amp-like.
I would have expected more of a discussion, but this is also good
The mindless acquisition of dirt pedals, at least in my ecosystem, lives in a symbiotic relationship with the mindful selling of other dirt pedals, and the current used market has a piston seizure. I have 7 pedals listed, for fair prices, totaling about €1200. Tied-up capital.
I would have expected more of a discussion, but this is also good
The mindless acquisition of dirt pedals, at least in my ecosystem, lives in a symbiotic relationship with the mindful selling of other dirt pedals, and the current used market has a piston seizure. I have 7 pedals listed, for fair prices, totaling about €1200. Tied-up capital.
@Charlie Tuna sent over this here:
Broughton calls it the Filter FX Loop, but I call it the Dirt Fixer.
It's a simple FX loop with a clean blend.
Only that it also has a phase flipper and LPF/HPF on the wet signal plus a LPF on the dry signal.
I tried it out with the Sushi Box FX Fluffy Kitten, a pedal that I bought when it was released (I got one of the very limited first run), but quickly decided that it does not really work with bass because even with the bass knob maxed, there's a lot of low-end-suck.
The Dirt Fixer takes care of that in a very good way. Both low pass filters are extremely helpful.
When you cut most of the treble on the dry signal, it blends seamlessly and there is no audible separation between the two. The wet filter can take care of the top end, should you dial it in too harsh on the pedal in the loop.
I only got as far as trying a single pedal in the loop, but I'm curious to try it with a synth chain, maybe even an octave going.
Broughton calls it the Filter FX Loop, but I call it the Dirt Fixer.
It's a simple FX loop with a clean blend.
Only that it also has a phase flipper and LPF/HPF on the wet signal plus a LPF on the dry signal.
I tried it out with the Sushi Box FX Fluffy Kitten, a pedal that I bought when it was released (I got one of the very limited first run), but quickly decided that it does not really work with bass because even with the bass knob maxed, there's a lot of low-end-suck.
The Dirt Fixer takes care of that in a very good way. Both low pass filters are extremely helpful.
When you cut most of the treble on the dry signal, it blends seamlessly and there is no audible separation between the two. The wet filter can take care of the top end, should you dial it in too harsh on the pedal in the loop.
I only got as far as trying a single pedal in the loop, but I'm curious to try it with a synth chain, maybe even an octave going.
I have one of these on my pedalboard with Jive in it's loop.@Charlie Tuna sent over this here:
Broughton calls it the Filter FX Loop, but I call it the Dirt Fixer.
It's a simple FX loop with a clean blend.
Only that it also has a phase flipper and LPF/HPF on the wet signal plus a LPF on the dry signal.
I tried it out with the Sushi Box FX Fluffy Kitten, a pedal that I bought when it was released (I got one of the very limited first run), but quickly decided that it does not really work with bass because even with the bass knob maxed, there's a lot of low-end-suck.
The Dirt Fixer takes care of that in a very good way. Both low pass filters are extremely helpful.
When you cut most of the treble on the dry signal, it blends seamlessly and there is no audible separation between the two. The wet filter can take care of the top end, should you dial it in too harsh on the pedal in the loop.
I only got as far as trying a single pedal in the loop, but I'm curious to try it with a synth chain, maybe even an octave going.
I have another crossover blender (Byt Heaven Sugar Britches) with Broughton Scorpion in the loop.
I generally use dirt pedals in crossover loops...unless the dirt pedals features low-passed/contoured clean blend-such as DA MBD.
I actually find HPF and LPF on the wet channel more usefull...
I'm with @Zbysek on this one. When your dirt pedal needs a clean blend and a four band EQ, You should maybe invest in a better dirt pedal.
When your dirt pedal sounds great and you really want to use it, but it cuts too much low end, then an external clean blend might make sense.
I wonder what pedal might be so good that you're willing to throw another $190 for the Broughton or $249 for the Damnation Audio plus two patch cables (another $10) at the problem instead of taking those $200-$260 and buy a decent dirt pedal instead . . .
Agreed! That problem was the genesis of my custom dirt pedal. It was originally an MXR Zakk Wylde (wouldn't have landed on that in a million lifetimes without great insistence from the girl working the shop that day!), but then rehoused into a bigger box, and with a parallel clean signal added into the circuit (via a separate volume knob). My preference has always been for parallel volume controls, rather than a wet/dry blend knob when it comes to dirt pedals.
Between the FFXL and the Dirt Fixer, I'd get the former. The L/H pass filters are the special sauce when it comes to blending clean and dirty
Indeed- I really like the Tech 21 Oxford drive when put in a loop with some clean lows added back in, but not enough to add a second pedal on the pedalboard that makes an already large-ish drive pedal take up nearly the same space as an HX Stomp! I may revisit that combo for recording purposes sometimes, but I’ve long ruled it out for live uses
@sunbeast Agreed on the cost/benefit analysis of these pedals with regard to real estate. I feel like in order to make it a justifiable addition to a board, you'd need to be running minimum 3-4 pedals in the loop; much harder to justify the extra space for a single pedal, or even two. At least over here, since I only have two purposefully small boards (the "big" one being 16"x8").