Please poke some holes in this concept before I waste time

#23
Only a specific chosen band of the spectrum passes through to the speaker. In my head, I had figured a cab filtered to 70-3k (or something around there) with proper tuning would work quite well, adding a brighter box to convey higher content, and an optional box to add some feel under the bandpass when there's no PA, looking no different than an 8x8 (or 810).
My takeaway here is move on, nothing to see here (in regards to that idea). Okay. Thanks again for your replies, everyone.
 
#24
I'm thinking of the fEarfuls when I say this, but those boxes don't need much mids to "sub" ratio.
The smallest box, a 12/6, has everything under ~800Hz covered by the 12", and everything above it covered by the 6".
Your 8x8 box might do all right with 6x8 of high passed speakers and only 2x8 of mids & highs.
You wouldn't need any "sub" speakers because the quantity of high passed drivers would handle it.

But I could be wrong.
 
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#25
basscooker said:
Derailing my own thread for a second.
Is there a design graveyard? Like a collection of "here's the idea, here's why it won't work" pages for folks without a familiarity with the history of the progression of speaker design?

That would be handy.
Click to expand...
Yes, all designers have the "shelf of shame"!
 
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#26
So, even if you could do all this, what would be the upside? Most of the supposed aural deliciousness you are trying to create will be masked by other instruments in the band.
 
#27
basscooker said:
Is there a design graveyard? Like a collection of "here's the idea, here's why it won't work" pages for folks without a familiarity with the history of the progression of speaker design?
Click to expand...

I don't know about that, but virtually everything has been tried over the last 50 years, and the wheel is still pretty much the same. Just like pickups, bridges, preamps on and on, you will find something you like or not, but things always seem to gravitate back to pretty conventional setups. Size and weight seem to have been the real game changers. I think what we all hope for is something radically improved, but it never really happens.
 
#30
basscooker said:
I usually destroy the evidence, lol. But is there a reference accessible online, though, of lab's or manufacturer's "shelves"? Preferably with some graphs and maths why it fails? Or is that called school?
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Probably not, I assume self-preservation might have something to do with it ;)
 
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#31
Why so many drivers? And why the 410 form factor? Those suffer from miserable dispersion anomalies with its destructive acoustic intetference above 500Hz. If you really need all those drivers, you need to looking at a line array config rather than side x side.
 
#33
Al Kraft said:
Without being argumentative or asking you to give away trade secrets Andy, from a purely conceptual point of view how would this be tremendously different from two cabs on a stage, one being a sub-woofer and the other a high passed full range complementary cab? If it has to do with the drivers all being in the same cab and/or in close proximity and how the sound waves would propagate/interfere (phasing, combing, cabinet resonance, whatever,...) that would make sense to me.

Thee are some rather full spectrum cabs out there that can already do almost sub lows to fairly high (relative to our ability to hear) frequencies, and they're in a single box. I can see it being a challenging problem - so are you saying that it is a lot more complex than would be worth the end result, or it's not likely that it could ever be pulled off with great results. Just curious to understand the science here a little better. Thanks! :)
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depends of the sum of phase responses of cabs and crossover within the crossover spectrum. You want them to sum positively.
 
#35
basscooker said:
In hind sight, the better thread title would have been," who tried it and why it didn't /won't work?"
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Don't feel too bad, one of my tribology professors who held an incredible number of patents across the areas of friction, wear and lubrication gave me some advice that sounded a little odd, but I never forgot it. Essentially he said that if you have a an idea and all the experts in the field think it makes perfect sense, it's probably not patent-worthy or even all that boundary busting. If on the other hand, they all tell you it's impossible, you may be on the verge of the next big breakthrough.

A futurist I worked with back in the late 70's and early 80's said that the transformational question he always liked to use to get folks thinking was this: What is it that's not possible in your business today, BUT if it was, would completely revolutionize your industry.

My advice is to keep exploring and pioneering beyond the art of the possible - we all use plenty of products today which would have been considered ridiculous to even consider as possibilities a decade or two ago, let alone be affordable consumer items we simply take for granted. :thumbsup:
 
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#36
Downunderwonder said:
depends of the sum of phase responses of cabs and crossover within the crossover spectrum. You want them to sum positively.
Click to expand...
I'm talking specifically if the acoustic response in addition to the electrical response. You may not want them to sum perfectly... in the speaker world, 2 "wrongs" can be used to create a "right".

Skewed filter response is often used as a correction mechanism, to achieve things that can not otherwise be done.

Beam steering is one example of inducing imperfect electrical response to achieve a desired acoustic response.
 
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#37
agedhorse said:
I'm talking specifically if the acoustic response in addition to the electrical response. You may not want them to sum perfectly... in the speaker world, 2 "wrongs" can be used to create a "right".

Skewed filter response is often used as a correction mechanism, to achieve things that can not otherwise be done.

Beam steering is one example of inducing imperfect electrical response to achieve a desired acoustic response.
Click to expand...
yes. ''Right'' as in a positive combination of twists.
 
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#38
Your proposed system does not fit what I described above very well. Too many challenges and poor odds.
 
#40
There is many dual voice coil subwoofers
That could possible work. And dual voice coil is the way to go if your looking to apply high power to reach 40hz and lower in a somewhat compact box with minimal drivers.

Downside is it has a challenge to standard musical instrument amplifiers
Cause a dual 4 or 2 ohm coil is already a 2 or 1ohm load as a single speaker and a pair is even more of a challenge.

A powered active system with dedicated
Amplifiers would work. Likewise active crossover would be realistic too. And high pass and over excursion filters as well.

Likewise for mids highs there is dual cone 10" and 12" with good efficiency and response up to 8k on axis. So off axis could assume decent response to possible 4k
 
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