I use the Time Guru app….it really works well with lots of options. My opinion is to play with the metronome, not follow…
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Practicing with a metronome
- Thread starter TroyK
- Start date
There are endless metronome timing ideas from drumming that can be used for bass.
One I was just messing with again is to pretend the metronome beep is the “and”. You play your 1234 beats in the space between and get confirmation of your timing based on the “and” from the metronome.
You should be able to mentally switch between 1. following the metronome beep (“beep (and)” 1, “beep (and)” 2, etc) and 2. Leading by hearing beep as a confirmation beep that follows your beat (your 3 “beep(and)”, your 4 “beep (and)”). You are playing in exactly the same spot time-wise (right in the middle of the beeps) but mentally thinking of the space relationship in two ways.
One I was just messing with again is to pretend the metronome beep is the “and”. You play your 1234 beats in the space between and get confirmation of your timing based on the “and” from the metronome.
You should be able to mentally switch between 1. following the metronome beep (“beep (and)” 1, “beep (and)” 2, etc) and 2. Leading by hearing beep as a confirmation beep that follows your beat (your 3 “beep(and)”, your 4 “beep (and)”). You are playing in exactly the same spot time-wise (right in the middle of the beeps) but mentally thinking of the space relationship in two ways.
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I like to use the metronome more as a "check" to my own time keeping, rather than a device that forces me to keep time. I still remember a band director I used to teach with used to teach his lesson groups with a metronome run through a big amplifier, cranking out so loudly I could hear it down the hall, through three closed doors, louder than his class was playing. Always bugged me... sure, anyone can stay in time if they're beat over the head with it.
Here's a couple things that work for me as a jazz pianist, and may work for some others..
1. If your metronome has a volume level setting, set it soft enough so that you can hear it clearly when you are NOT playing right with it, but not when you are, or at least so you can only barely hear it. Then, LISTEN intently.
2. Learn to hear the metronome as clicking on beats 2 and 4, i.e., corresponding to a standard hi-hat placement in jazz, and practice with it there. For example, for practicing something at quarter note=120, set the metronome at 60 and place "1" in your head so that the metronome clicks fall on "2" and "4."
3. Once that gets comfortable, and especially for faster tempi, try hearing the metronome as JUST clicking on "4." Your metronome setting will be 1/4 the actual quarter note marking at this point, of course.
4. For jazz waltzes, put the click on the "and of 2" or on "3."
5. For odd meters like 5/4, 7/4, or any tunes that change meter, just keep time and let the click move to it's new location. For instance, if you're playing a tune that has an eight bar phrase consisting of seven 4/4 bars followed by a 5/4 bar, then that phrase repeats, the metronome will be on 2,4 for the first eight bars. The additional fifth beat of the last measure will force the metronome to be on 1,3 for the next eight bar phrase. Each eight bars, it'll switch to the opposite parts of the measures.
The programmable metronomes and apps we have these days are really versatile, but I've found that practicing as above puts more of the onus on ME to keep great time, rather than relying on the metronome to force the issue. It tells me whether I'm right or wrong, but doesn't force me to be right... that's on ME.
One thing that IS nice, and very useful, about apps and programmable metronomes is the ability to program in measures of silence. Have the metronome cut out for every other bar.. then every other bar... then for four bars every four bars, then for eight bars every eight bars... and if it's still right where you left it when it re-enters, you know you're really getting pretty solid!
I liked Lynn's comments about Herb Ellis, toe-tapping on 1,3, "where's 2?," and feeling things in two or even one as tempi increase... dead on. As tempi become increasingly "up," hearing the metronome on 2 and 4, say above quarter note=280 or so, can become counterproductive, but I still think it's a good exercise, as the hi-hat will still be on 2,4 (at least primarily) when gigging.
Here's a couple things that work for me as a jazz pianist, and may work for some others..
1. If your metronome has a volume level setting, set it soft enough so that you can hear it clearly when you are NOT playing right with it, but not when you are, or at least so you can only barely hear it. Then, LISTEN intently.
2. Learn to hear the metronome as clicking on beats 2 and 4, i.e., corresponding to a standard hi-hat placement in jazz, and practice with it there. For example, for practicing something at quarter note=120, set the metronome at 60 and place "1" in your head so that the metronome clicks fall on "2" and "4."
3. Once that gets comfortable, and especially for faster tempi, try hearing the metronome as JUST clicking on "4." Your metronome setting will be 1/4 the actual quarter note marking at this point, of course.
4. For jazz waltzes, put the click on the "and of 2" or on "3."
5. For odd meters like 5/4, 7/4, or any tunes that change meter, just keep time and let the click move to it's new location. For instance, if you're playing a tune that has an eight bar phrase consisting of seven 4/4 bars followed by a 5/4 bar, then that phrase repeats, the metronome will be on 2,4 for the first eight bars. The additional fifth beat of the last measure will force the metronome to be on 1,3 for the next eight bar phrase. Each eight bars, it'll switch to the opposite parts of the measures.
The programmable metronomes and apps we have these days are really versatile, but I've found that practicing as above puts more of the onus on ME to keep great time, rather than relying on the metronome to force the issue. It tells me whether I'm right or wrong, but doesn't force me to be right... that's on ME.
One thing that IS nice, and very useful, about apps and programmable metronomes is the ability to program in measures of silence. Have the metronome cut out for every other bar.. then every other bar... then for four bars every four bars, then for eight bars every eight bars... and if it's still right where you left it when it re-enters, you know you're really getting pretty solid!
I liked Lynn's comments about Herb Ellis, toe-tapping on 1,3, "where's 2?," and feeling things in two or even one as tempi increase... dead on. As tempi become increasingly "up," hearing the metronome on 2 and 4, say above quarter note=280 or so, can become counterproductive, but I still think it's a good exercise, as the hi-hat will still be on 2,4 (at least primarily) when gigging.
I've studied privately with 2 "hall of fame" jazz bassists. One said you need to use a metronome a lot, that it's the only way to get good time. The other said to never use it, that your job as a bassist is to generate a pulse, not sync with a click. There you go.
The second guy, at least in my opinion, is pretty much dead wrong. The "pulse" just IS. No single musician in a group generates it; we all collectively adhere to it.
Practicing with a metronome is a great way to find out if one is capable of adhering to a steady pulse, especially if the metronome is used as a checking tool rather than a crutch (see my much earlier post in this thread).
I agree, MuseChaser. The understanding I have always had, whether playing bass or cello, is that my intonation is critical for setting the fundamental pitch for the group, so to speak, and my 'pulse' is critical for keeping everyone on tempo. It is a very tall order, right? Thus even though my ego may tell me I have a good sense of time, I have occasionally had my sails de-winded by testing against a metronome. It will keep you honest.
Well, I don't want to name names, but "the second guy" is a hugely successful jazz artist with a career we all could only hope to have artistically and financially, so he must know something. Here's something else to chew on. "Guy number two" insisted that you must transcribe; that's the only way to learn jazz. "Guy number one" - the must use the metronome guy - said he never transcribed because he wanted to play his own music, not copy others. Yin/Yang
Different folks have different opinions, experiences, and ways of looking at things. I agree with the benefits of transcriptions, although I believe the primary benefit comes the listening skills and ear-training involved rather than simply desiring to copy great players' performances exactly. The desire to find one's individual voice and "play (his) own music" is of course the eventual goal, but doing that without studying the masters that have paved the way would be foolhardy.
What I took the most exception to was the idea that any one musician in an ensemble was somehow uniquely responsible for generating and keeping time. That is a fallacy, and musicians that think that way can be quite difficult to play with. I've worked with a great many folks who are household names in the jazz world, and to a name, all of the truly great players are quintessential "team players;" they listen, interact, and do whatever is necessary to make the group sound its best.
There's a rehearsal big band I occasionally play with, made up primarily of phenomenal jazz players who make most of their money playing shows on Broadway. The drummer, a wonderful fellow and terrific reader who's been in the business FOREVER, does have the attitude that he is responsible for keeping time, and it gets to be a problem sometimes. If the rest of the band, or the sax section, or whatever, starts to drag just a bit, he fights it to prove he's right, ends up rushing and because he refuses to yield for the common good, the beat eventually gets turned. That's just a bad. In music, we're all in it together, and it's way better to be wrong together than for one person to be right. If they're the only one right, they're wrong.
We are ALL responsible for time, equally. Yes, the time of the bass and drums are more obvious and easier to hear, but that doesn't mean they are in charge of time-keeping. We ALL are.
I'm curious who the bassist you reference is, although I applaud and concur with your choice not to name him/her. Chances are pretty good that I've worked with him at some point, but maybe not.