Pros And Cons: Mesa/Boogie Bass 400+ vs. Orange AD200B

[Silas Caldwell]

Hello, I have been playing bass for awhile now, my latest tour rig was an Aguilar Tone Hammer 500, and my Aguilar dB112. My goal here was, LIGHT AS POSSIBLE. But I realized that meant sacrificing tone and paying more for a solid state than a normal tube amp. I've considered my options and I'm down to a Mesa/Boogie Bass 400+ and the Orange AD200B. What do you all think? I play anything from Southern Rock (Lynyrd Skynyrd, Etc.) to Heavy Metal (Megadeth, Slayer, Etc.). Please leave your thoughts!

 

[Gearhead17]

What are your volume needs on stage? Are you filling the stage with bass tone or is this a rig that goes off to the side for close miking? Are you thinking about changing your cabinet at all?

I have not played the Orange AD200B, but I have owned the Mesa 400+ and enjoyed my time with it. It truly can handle any genre of music and I never felt it was lacking in tone. Had a decent amount of tube growl to it, plenty of punch, and sounded excellent. In the end, I wanted something with larger headroom in the low end. The Mesa 400+ would simply overdrive when you pumped it with low end. Which still sounded good! But I wanted something cleaner sounding. I use a Mesa D800 right now and I am 100% satisfied.

 

[gh0st42]

Hello, I have been playing bass for awhile now, my latest tour rig was an Aguilar Tone Hammer 500, and my Aguilar dB112. My goal here was, LIGHT AS POSSIBLE. But I realized that meant sacrificing tone and paying more for a solid state than a normal tube amp. I've considered my options and I'm down to a Mesa/Boogie Bass 400+ and the Orange AD200B. What do you all think? I play anything from Southern Rock (Lynyrd Skynyrd, Etc.) to Heavy Metal (Megadeth, Slayer, Etc.). Please leave your thoughts!

I'd check out the new Mesa Boogie TT-800 for the best of both worlds, if you are interested in the 400+, which is a great sounding but heavy beast!

The TT-800 is dual channel, and one channel is based on the 400+ and the 2nd channel sorta like a hybrid of D-800+ and WD-800. Plus way lighter as it's a Class D Solid State power section.

 

[Killing Floor]

Definitely look at the newer Mesa amps. Light and loud and sound like it should and they are built to last.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Look at the Matamp GT200, its like the grown ups version of the AD200, with a more flexible eq (Baxandall rather than FMV) and actually does the power the model number suggests.

 

[Funk With Me]

I have an AD200 MkIII. I like it a lot. It’s an organic sound. It will sound like your guitar. Limited eq with the idea being the shortest possible signal path between the guitar and the speaker. It’s plenty loud so I don’t see any problem there.

Really, between the two amps you’re looking at I don’t see any wrong answer.

 

[Wasnex]

Hello, I have been playing bass for awhile now, my latest tour rig was an Aguilar Tone Hammer 500, and my Aguilar dB112. My goal here was, LIGHT AS POSSIBLE. But I realized that meant sacrificing tone and paying more for a solid state than a normal tube amp. I've considered my options and I'm down to a Mesa/Boogie Bass 400+ and the Orange AD200B. What do you all think? I play anything from Southern Rock (Lynyrd Skynyrd, Etc.) to Heavy Metal (Megadeth, Slayer, Etc.). Please leave your thoughts!

The Mesa is going to make more power and have a lot more tone shaping options due to the graphic EQ. I believe a healthy 400+ typically makes about 270W clean. I won't say more because I haven't played a 400 or 400+ for a long time.

The Orange AD200B makes about 165-170W clean. To my ears this amps sound very close to a vintage blackface Fender Showman when you max out the Volume and set level with the Gain control. The EQ works well IMHO, but it's not very flexible--you get Bass, Middle, and Treble controls. Optimum flat is with the Mid close to wide open and the Bass and Treble close to off. The Preamp is pretty gainy. If your turn the Volume down and run up the gain, it's very easy to get drive out of the preamp.

A lot of people describe the Orange as a dark sounding amp. I find this perplexing, but it is very easy to get a lot of lows out of the amp if you crank up the Bass control. I don't think the amp sounds very good set up this way. With only 170W it tends to run out of headroom pretty fast and the lows loose focus and mush out. I run the Bass, Mids, and, Treble on my AD200B at around 10, 3, and 9 o'clock and it sounds great.

If you want an amp that allows you to run heavy lows and push the output section into OD, I agree with @Mr. Foxen, get a Matamp GT200. Aside from historical ties between Orange and Matamp, the only thing a GT200 and AD200B have in common are cosmetic similarities IMHO. My AD200B sounds very Fendery, and IMHO it sounds totally different than my vintage Matamp GT120.

The only problem with buying a Matamp is you have to order them direct from Matamp which is located in the UK. IMHO they are made to a higher quality level than the AD200B, and difference in purchase price is not as much as you might think. The Matamp will be kicking long after the Orange makes it's way to the rubbish bin. Not that the Orange is a bad amp, it's just a typical mass produced design.

In favor of the Orange, there is a much better chance that you will be able to find an AD200B to demo before you make a purchase decision. Good luck finding a GT200 to demo. Check out the various videos you can find of the GT200. If you like what you hear and can afford to spend an little bit extra, consider the Matamp. Then hope one of your grandkids takes up bass, so you pass it down through the generations .

One last thing, the bench test I have read about suggests the GT200 easily makes over 200W

 

[dougazbass]

Just bought a 400+ and OMG it is the heaviest piece of electronics equipment I have ever dealt with. Heavier than my Phase Linear 700 b.

 

[takeout]

I got a screaming deal on a 400+ a couple of years back. Running it through two Diesel 15s loaded with Faital 15PR400s, I found I could barely turn it up to 2 before reaching jet-engine levels in 100-200 person rooms. Gigged it maybe four times before flipping for a profit.

 

[Raw N Low]

I think most players confuse an amp's characteristics with tone. The majority of bass heads whether they are solid-state, hybrid, or tube usually have a good tone that will suit most player's needs.

Can't speak to the Orange but, I did recently acquire a Mesa 400+ through a really good friend. Despite owning one, I've had limited time with it but, found the overall character of the amp to be something special. As far as weight goes, the 400+ is lighter than my SVT 2-Pro, Bassman Pro 300, and my Ampeg V-9. I have a few solid-state amps that are in the ballpark of the Mesa -- that being the SVT 4-Pro.

Heavy Metal is definitely in the wheelhouse of the 400+. I would strongly suggest playing through one and counting the cost before making it a mainstay of your rig.

 

[mikeswals]

Just bought a 400+ and OMG it is the heaviest piece of electronics equipment I have ever dealt with. Heavier than my Phase Linear 700 b.

LOL! you ever try moving an Ampeg tube head? they're 25-30 lbs heavier.

 

[Wasnex]

LOL! you ever try moving an Ampeg tube head? they're 25-30 lbs heavier.

Depends on the case. SVTs run 80-90lbs depending on the model and vintage. I believe the 400+ weighs 48lbs sans case. A 4-space shock mount case will run about 45lbs. Throw in a ~2lb rack tuner and your at 95lbs. Or you could choose one of the light induction molded cases.

Course if you touring, you're probably going to put your SVT in some sort of case as well .

...so it depends.

 

[dougazbass]

At 75-80 lbs there is no way you should try to carry it. 400+ is at that weight where you think you can carry it, but you might end up with a hernia. I've had 2 hernia repairs so...guess I'm just a little too careful.

 

[FretlessPirate]

At 75-80 lbs there is no way you should try to carry it. 400+ is at that weight where you think you can carry it, but you might end up with a hernia. I've had 2 hernia repairs so...guess I'm just a little too careful.

I hear Ya! Try one herniated disc and on ruptured disc; upstairs gigs were the worst! Wrecked my back just TRYING to help the roadies!

 

[Dave W]

I’m not singling anyone out specifically, but does nobody on this forum lift any weight whatsoever? I see these comments all the time and it’s troubling to me. If you’re disabled or have some sort of major back issue I completely understand.

A 400+ weighs like 50lbs. I have one in my tube amp stable.
My kids weigh 50lbs and I pick them up ALL THE TIME. Sometimes at the same time.
My 50lb kids pick up each other.
My canoe weighs close to 80lbs and I lift it over my head to car top it and portage it on a weekly basis. Tiny outdoorsy girls do it.
Even at work, in a highly scrutinized industry you’re allowed to solo lift 50lbs. 60 year olds that are ready to retire do it.

Is the 400+, SVT, AD200B, Matamp, Sunn, etc. heavier than a 6lb micro amp? Of course it is, but in the grand scheme of things that not nearly as heavy as this forum makes them out to be.

 

[Wasnex]

I’m not singling anyone out specifically, but does nobody on this forum lift any weight whatsoever? I see these comments all the time and it’s troubling to me. If you’re disabled or have some sort of major back issue I completely understand.

A 400+ weighs like 50lbs. I have one in my tube amp stable.
My kids weigh 50lbs and I pick them up ALL THE TIME. Sometimes at the same time.
My 50lb kids pick up each other.
My canoe weighs close to 80lbs and I lift it over my head to car top it and portage it on a weekly basis. Tiny outdoorsy girls do it.
Even at work, in a highly scrutinized industry you’re allowed to solo lift 50lbs. 60 year olds that are ready to retire do it.

Is the 400+, SVT, AD200B, Matamp, Sunn, etc. heavier than a 6lb micro amp? Of course it is, but in the grand scheme of things that not nearly as heavy as this forum makes them out to be.

Glad you are still healthy and strong like bull. A few years ago I bought bunch of bags of mulch and helped the clerk load them into my truck and onto my trailer. Two trips worth that I unloaded by myself; 150 bags or so at 40-50lbs each. Never had any sort of moment where anything snapped or I felt a tear or some sort of sharp pain.

Next day I started putting the mulch out. Had to stop after a few bags because my lower back felt like I was being stabbed with an ice pick, and it was quickly getting worse. I have tweaked my back like this before, but after a few days of rest I had always recovered. It's been a few years, and it's gotten better but the problem is chronic.

Had to give up several of my work out elements because they were aggravating the problem. For example, exercises like walking on a Stairmaster. For an extended time, it was super hard to even put on my shoes or clean my rear end. If I sneezed or coughed the pain was unbearable.

Went to the doctor and got a referral for a physical therapist. None of the exercises seemed to target the problem area, but they sure did tone up my glutes.

The only thing that seemed to help was to avoid doing any moves that caused pain. This was not easy. I'm better now, but I still feel extremely fragile.

I have several of my tube amps set up on tables in a back room. When I want to play one of them, I carry it to a table I have set up near my speakers in another room. I don't seem to have much problem with small amps, but it's getting harder and harder to deal with the big ones. Usually the day after I move a big amp, my back gives me a little reminder. I am talking moving one or two amps about 12' from one table to another table.

I have been active my entire life, and until this happened I worked out almost continuously since I was in my early 20s.

IMHO be grateful for what you have. Someday you may be surprised how quickly you can lose it.

 

[FretlessPirate]

Glad you are still healthy and strong like bull. A few years ago I bought bunch of bags of mulch and helped the clerk load them into my truck and onto my trailer. Two trips worth that I unloaded by myself; 150 bags or so at 40-50lbs each. Never had any sort of moment where anything snapped or I felt a tear or some sort of sharp pain.

Next day I started putting the mulch out. Had to stop after a few bags because my lower back felt like I was being stabbed with an ice pick, and it was quickly getting worse. I have tweaked my back like this before, but after a few days of rest I had always recovered. It's been a few years, and it's gotten better but the problem is chronic.

Had to give up several of my work out elements because they were aggravating the problem. For example, exercises like walking on a Stairmaster. For an extended time, it was super hard to even put on my shoes or clean my rear end. If I sneezed or coughed the pain was unbearable.

Went to the doctor and got a referral for a physical therapist. None of the exercises seemed to target the problem area, but they sure did tone up my glutes.

The only thing that seemed to help was to avoid doing any moves that caused pain. This was not easy. I'm better now, but I still feel extremely fragile.

I have several of my tube amps set up on tables in a back room. When I want to play one of them, I carry it to a table I have set up near my speakers in another room. I don't seem to have much problem with small amps, but it's getting harder and harder to deal with the big ones. Usually the day after I move a big amp, my back gives me a little reminder. I am talking moving one or two amps about 12' from one table to another table.

I have been active my entire life, and until this happened I worked out almost continuously since I was in my early 20s.

IMHO be grateful for what you have. Someday you may be surprised how quickly you can lose it.

Glad you are still healthy and strong like bull. A few years ago I bought bunch of bags of mulch and helped the clerk load them into my truck and onto my trailer. Two trips worth that I unloaded by myself; 150 bags or so at 40-50lbs each. Never had any sort of moment where anything snapped or I felt a tear or some sort of sharp pain.

Next day I started putting the mulch out. Had to stop after a few bags because my lower back felt like I was being stabbed with an ice pick, and it was quickly getting worse. I have tweaked my back like this before, but after a few days of rest I had always recovered. It's been a few years, and it's gotten better but the problem is chronic.

Had to give up several of my work out elements because they were aggravating the problem. For example, exercises like walking on a Stairmaster. For an extended time, it was super hard to even put on my shoes or clean my rear end. If I sneezed or coughed the pain was unbearable.

Went to the doctor and got a referral for a physical therapist. None of the exercises seemed to target the problem area, but they sure did tone up my glutes.

The only thing that seemed to help was to avoid doing any moves that caused pain. This was not easy. I'm better now, but I still feel extremely fragile.

I have several of my tube amps set up on tables in a back room. When I want to play one of them, I carry it to a table I have set up near my speakers in another room. I don't seem to have much problem with small amps, but it's getting harder and harder to deal with the big ones. Usually the day after I move a big amp, my back gives me a little reminder. I am talking moving one or two amps about 12' from one table to another table.

I have been active my entire life, and until this happened I worked out almost continuously since I was in my early 20s.

IMHO be grateful for what you have. Someday you may be surprised how quickly you can lose it.

Yes, lifting my kids 30 years ago was a wonderful feat, over 60 with deteriorated discs, the old Boogie in it's shock rack can be a deal-killer. Big bass cabs as well. Can't beat the sound/tone/etc. Drummer can't drown you out. Just give us old geezers a break; yep, the dinosaur giant tube amps are HEAVY!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Yes, lifting my kids 30 years ago was a wonderful feat, over 60 with deteriorated discs, the old Boogie in it's shock rack can be a deal-killer. Big bass cabs as well. Can't beat the sound/tone/etc. Drummer can't drown you out. Just give us old geezers a break; yep, the dinosaur giant tube amps are HEAVY!

^^^This. The CDC weight chart reports that a 50 lb. child is likely to be between 6-9 years old. Many TB members - myself included - have children in college or beyond. When my son was 7, heavy gear was not as big a deal. Now that he's in college, my 30 lb. amp and 22 lb. bass are plenty heavy enough for me. As we age, we need to be more careful about how we sling around heavy items. Live long enough, and everyone will get there.

 

[groovaholic]

I've considered my options and I'm down to a Mesa/Boogie Bass 400+ and the Orange AD200B. What do you all think? I play anything from Southern Rock (Lynyrd Skynyrd, Etc.) to Heavy Metal (Megadeth, Slayer, Etc.)

I've never owned the AD200B, but I did own an Orange Terror Bass - which I only mention because the Terror and the AD200B supposedly have the same preamp -- and I've owned a couple Mesa 400+.

The Mesa and the Orange are VERY different sounding amps; I loved them both.

Both have a certain organic "juicy" tone that starts with a fair amount of preamp gain.
To me, the Orange was a bit scooped in the mids - which sounded great at home but made me run out of headroom when I was trying to use it with the band.
The Mesa had a lot of voice going on in the mids, but could also compress and squish when you tried to wring too much low end out of it - but I'd still expect it to have a lot more stage volume than the AD200B.

With either one, as Wasnex said, you'll be getting less than 300 clean watts. Generally, getting high stage volume (as one would need to hang with Southern Rock or Metal) out of amps with 300 watts or less means pairing them with a lot of speaker area - the ubiquitous Ampeg 810 comes to mind.

So I suspect that you might also be needing to replace your Aguilar DB112.
If so, you might want to try your Tone Hammer into larger cabinets first - I don't think that amp is necessarily what's holding your sound back.
Plus, it'll give you a familiar starting point for evaluating the cabinets.

 

[Wasnex]

I've never owned the AD200B, but I did own an Orange Terror Bass - which I only mention because the Terror and the AD200B supposedly have the same preamp -- and I've owned a couple Mesa 400+.

The Mesa and the Orange are VERY different sounding amps; I loved them both.

Both have a certain organic "juicy" tone that starts with a fair amount of preamp gain.
To me, the Orange was a bit scooped in the mids - which sounded great at home but made me run out of headroom when I was trying to use it with the band.
The Mesa had a lot of voice going on in the mids, but could also compress and squish when you tried to wring too much low end out of it - but I'd still expect it to have a lot more stage volume than the AD200B.

With either one, as Wasnex said, you'll be getting less than 300 clean watts. Generally, getting high stage volume (as one would need to hang with Southern Rock or Metal) out of amps with 300 watts or less means pairing them with a lot of speaker area - the ubiquitous Ampeg 810 comes to mind.

So I suspect that you might also be needing to replace your Aguilar DB112.
If so, you might want to try your Tone Hammer into larger cabinets first - I don't think that amp is necessarily what's holding your sound back.
Plus, it'll give you a familiar starting point for evaluating the cabinets.

If you bypass the graphic on the 400+, it should sound closer to an AD200B. IMHO, the AD200B sounds and feels almost exactly like a blackface Fender. The Mesa is in the same tone universe, but not dead center.

The TerrorBass preamp is very similar, but not exactly the same as the AD200B. The component values in the tone stacks are different. This should have some impact on how these amps are voiced. I think the preamp in the original TerrorBass was a bit more gainy than the AD200B preamp. The Mk2 Terror Bass added a clean switch.

You can't really dial in a mid-boost with the Orange preamp. If the sound is too mid-scooped, it may be because you are running the mids too low and the bass and treble too high. I run Bass, Mids, Treble on my AD200B around 10:00, 3:00, 9:00. The AD200B sounds great if you crank the lows higher, but it quickly runs out of headroom. Unfortunately, when pushed hard the lows mush out pretty fast, so I think amp sounds and works best with relatively lean lows.