Reasonable expectations for buying a used bass?

When buying a used instrument, should it arrive as the seller described it?

  • Yes

    Votes: 126 86.9%

  • No

    Votes: 3 2.1%

  • It depends - I'll explain below

    Votes: 16 11.0%
  • Total voters
    145
Status
Not open for further replies.
Scott Lynch

Scott Lynch

Supporting Member
Nov 27, 2002
1,394
1,582
5,461
Delaware, USA
#1
When buying a used instrument online, specifically from an independent seller, do you think it's reasonable to expect the instrument to arrive to you as described by the seller, or do you accept there being issues with the instrument that were not disclosed prior? If so, which ones are acceptable and which aren't?

As you might suspect, I unfortunately am currently in a dispute with the seller of a bass I bought here on TB just a few days ago (who shall remain nameless out of courtesy). Despite assuring me in private conversation that there were no playability issues with the instrument at all and that the instrument received a recent setup from a very highly reputable shop local to the seller (as in, you've probably heard of them), the bass arrived with an obvious high fret (the 19th), and is showing signs of a ski jump per a thorough evaluation from a local tech whose judgement I trust. In the midst of this dispute the seller has told me that I'm being unrealistic and that I need to lower my expectations.

What do you think? Are these issues acceptable? What would you do in such a situation?

(mods, feel free to move this if it belongs somewhere else)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Vitrius Humor, sNaPpeRHeaD and Ellery
#2
Well, it looks like we're getting both sides of a story, with this thread being the buyer's side, and this thread ....

Seller's side

...from the seller's point of view. ..unless I'm wrong? (Please tell me if I am)

Both seem like reasonable people with reasonable points of view. It's impossible to tell, without putting my hands and eyes on the bass in question, to what degree one or the other is "pushing the envelope" of reasonable expectation.

To answer the questions posed in this thread...

1. ".. do you think it's reasonable to expect the instrument to arrive to you as described by the seller(?),"

Yes, unequivocally

2. ".... do you accept there being issues with the instrument that were not disclosed prior?"

Depends upon the issue. If it's a playability issue correctable by adjusting correctly working truss rod and bridge/saddle adjusters, not a factor at all. Same for a tiny surface scratch or two unless specifically denied, worn strings (unless described as new), and similarly minor or easily correctable issues.

3. ".. which ones are acceptable and which aren't?"

Messed up truss rods, bridges, saddles, tuners, electronics, or anything else undisclosed that costs more than a relatively insignificant percentage of the cost of the instrument to remediate, or obvious departure from the represented cosmetic condition, in picture and prose, of the instrument.

A high fret is easily remediated. "Signs of a ski jump"...is there one that affects playability, or not? I'm not sure what "signs of" means ..
 
  • Like
Reactions: StyleOverShow, urkel3000, sNaPpeRHeaD and 3 others
#5
MotorCityMinion said:
Get a straight edge, a fret rocker and check it.
Click to expand...

Agree. This sounds like a classic case where knowing how to accurately self-diagnose issues becomes a necessity, IME. A basic knowledge of how stuff is supposed to work, and a few common tools. It's important to be able to rule out wrong diagnoses from a) unskilled/misinformed techs, b) unscrupulous techs looking for hapless victims to upsell spendy remedies to, sometimes even for nonexistent issues. Trust, but verify. Good luck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop, FRoss6788 and moon-bass
#6
Just out of curiosity, One high fret is easily dealt with. Is the "almost ski sloped neck" just a turn of the truss rod or an uneven warpage? Aside from a neck warpage these issues are easily fixed. Can you tell us Scott which it is. Just as an aside.... As a professional player I would never buy a Bass without playing it first unless I personally knew the seller. Find a music store with three of the same brand and model basses. I'll bet none of them sound, feel or play exactly the same. It's all in the wood. just my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop, Bruiser Stone and urkel3000
#7
Was the action on the high side when the bass arrived? If so, I can see where the seller (or shop) might not have noticed the high fret or the ski jump.

IMO, high action can cover a myriad of neck issues that would appear when those who prefer low action (like me) try to get the strings lower. I’ve had that problem with the last two used basses I bought (see
here and here ).

Still, the problems seem minor enough and inexpensive to have repaired?

The best way to have a recourse when a bass arrives not in the condition expected is to stick with buying from ebay and Reverb.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Ecclesia: Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Official Pre-Gibson Tobias Owners Club
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
My Basses
 
  • Like
Reactions: MuseChaser
#8
I vote yes.

But I also would expect 9 of 10 basses at all price points need a kiss of fret work and at least a decent setup. Truss problems or warped necks you’d hope to avoid, obviously. But even then I’d still assume a shop knows what that is but an individual seller may not.
 
#9
Well, the high fret is obvious. My string action gauge, essentially a short straight edge, is easily able to detect it, and the notes on the 18th fret of the D and A string (Ab and Eb, respectively) do not speak on the instrument with the setup as received from the seller. Please feel free to check out this short YouTube video to see and hear what I'm talking about and judge for yourself.

By no means am I God's gift to music, but I've been playing BG for over 25 years, DB for 20, and have spent much of that time playing professionally in bands and other ensembles. I've spent a lot of time studying the instrument and building a vocabulary, I play all over the neck and I need the instrument to speak all over. And I am not so much as close to being alone in those expectations for what an instrument should do, which is - work as it was designed to! I mean, if you're one of the many who work at a computer for a living, would you deal with a keyboard that had even just a couple of broken keys, and just only type words that used the keys that actually worked? No, you'd get one that was fully functional, because every key has a function to perform.

I know my expectations are high, but I don't find them unreasonable. I was clear with the seller about expecting full playability from the outset and have it documented via our conversation that the instrument was in such condition. For it to arrive with the issues you can hear in the video after being told this - well, either the seller is a) lying, b) didn't do their due diligence in inspecting the instrument or c) there's the chance that this somehow happened in transit. This is truly frustrating, and regardless of the cause, I find it unacceptable that I would have to put additional money into an instrument to get it to work as promised by a seller. Any shop or builder that did this with any regularity would be out of business.

By the way, the bass is a 4 string w/20 frets so it has 84 possible notes it could play not counting harmonics, bends, etc. [(20 frets + 1 open string) x 4 strings]. Testing one fret per second - done in under a minute and a half. That's how easy it would have been to check before shipping it. If you're reading this post from the beginning, it probably took you longer to do that than it would take to inspect the frets on this bass.

Caveat emptor of course, which is why I took the time to ask questions. The fact that this became such a heated exchange of words and non-stop denial from the seller is just beyond me. My only recourse is to try and take the high road and assume that somehow this happened in transit, but multiple conversations with different guitar techs today indicate to me that such a scenario is highly unlikely. I truly am having a heck of a time not feeling feel like I've been gaslit, am honestly a bit shaken, and probably will not buy or sell a bass sight unseen any time in the near future, if ever again.

However, 23 "yes" votes and counting per my post - I don't think I'm out of line here. OTOH maybe I need a second opinion from another tech.

Thanks everyone. I really do appreciate you sharing your views. Hoping to have some more TBers weigh in. Please just be honest and forthright with your thoughts - I could use it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bassdirty, urkel3000 and WayneP
#10
Anything that is setup related should be off the table, unless it is really extreme. Shipping and travelling through many potential temperatures, pressures and climates may affect the setup, so it is unreasonable to expect perfection.

I wouldn't worry too much about a high fret.

A ski jump in the neck, that one I am not sure about. Is it still playable? If it's a Fodera, I would expect that everything should be adjustable to play extremely well. If it's a Mexican or Chinese made Fender or Squier, then maybe not as much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FRoss6788 and funkymonk13
#11
Its a used instrument and there could be issues that the seller doesn't know about. By the sound of your description about certain notes "not speaking" my guess is that you want a very specific level of setup that many people probably don't get as specific about. I think its completely possible to have someone get a setup and love it that way and another person to not like it that way and find an issue as you why they can't get it the way they like it. In this case I don't think the seller hid anything or described it incorrectly I think you just found issues with it in relation to how you personally like it set up. Just my opinion.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: FRoss6788, murphy, DJ Bebop and 3 others
#14
So if it is a vintage reissue, I either read or was told (someone correct me if I am wrong), that the truss rod does not effect that portion of the neck (the upper frets going over the body). I once had my Road Worn Jazz setup at a reputable luthier and that area was fretting out a bit if I didn't play lightly after the setup.
 
Last edited:
#15
This is a tough one. Whats the cost of remedying the high fret? What sort of resolution would you find acceptable?

Keep in mind everyone has a different perspective. If I took a bass to a reputable shop and they told me it’s good to go, I would assume it is. Like you said, this is something that could have happened during shipping.

If it’s not a case of a seller intentionally trying to deceive you, I think it’s worth working something out. In this case I feel like getting it fixed and splitting the cost would make sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jonartimus and Pdaddy1978
#16
Scott Lynch said:
Well, the high fret is obvious. My string action gauge, essentially a short straight edge, is easily able to detect it, and the notes on the 18th fret of the D and A string (Ab and Eb, respectively) do not speak on the instrument with the setup as received from the seller. Please feel free to check out this short YouTube video to see and hear what I'm talking about and judge for yourself.

By no means am I God's gift to music, but I've been playing BG for over 25 years, DB for 20, and have spent much of that time playing professionally in bands and other ensembles. I've spent a lot of time studying the instrument and building a vocabulary, I play all over the neck and I need the instrument to speak all over. And I am not so much as close to being alone in those expectations for what an instrument should do, which is - work as it was designed to! I mean, if you're one of the many who work at a computer for a living, would you deal with a keyboard that had even just a couple of broken keys, and just only type words that used the keys that actually worked? No, you'd get one that was fully functional, because every key has a function to perform.

I know my expectations are high, but I don't find them unreasonable. I was clear with the seller about expecting full playability from the outset and have it documented via our conversation that the instrument was in such condition. For it to arrive with the issues you can hear in the video after being told this - well, either the seller is a) lying, b) didn't do their due diligence in inspecting the instrument or c) there's the chance that this somehow happened in transit. This is truly frustrating, and regardless of the cause, I find it unacceptable that I would have to put additional money into an instrument to get it to work as promised by a seller. Any shop or builder that did this with any regularity would be out of business.

By the way, the bass is a 4 string w/20 frets so it has 84 possible notes it could play not counting harmonics, bends, etc. [(20 frets + 1 open string) x 4 strings]. Testing one fret per second - done in under a minute and a half. That's how easy it would have been to check before shipping it. If you're reading this post from the beginning, it probably took you longer to do that than it would take to inspect the frets on this bass.

Caveat emptor of course, which is why I took the time to ask questions. The fact that this became such a heated exchange of words and non-stop denial from the seller is just beyond me. My only recourse is to try and take the high road and assume that somehow this happened in transit, but multiple conversations with different guitar techs today indicate to me that such a scenario is highly unlikely. I truly am having a heck of a time not feeling feel like I've been gaslit, am honestly a bit shaken, and probably will not buy or sell a bass sight unseen any time in the near future, if ever again.

However, 23 "yes" votes and counting per my post - I don't think I'm out of line here. OTOH maybe I need a second opinion from another tech.

Thanks everyone. I really do appreciate you sharing your views. Hoping to have some more TBers weigh in. Please just be honest and forthright with your thoughts - I could use it.
Click to expand...
This "ski jump" thing is pretty common on Fender-type necks, if you go play a number of Fender and Fender-ish examples in a local shop you are likely to come across a few new instruments like that unless they are setup with high action which masks it. There are a few good threads on Talkbass where very knowledgeable luthiers like @Bruce Johnson talk about the physics of the issue: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/getting-the-facts-about-ski-jumps.1111265/ . I agree that it seems unlikely to have happened in transit from my understanding of it. Fortunately it is easy enough to just create a rolloff of the fret heights at the end of the neck to take care of it since it only affects such a small piece of the end of the fretboard, and it shouldn't be an expensive job that hopefully the seller will be willing to cover ( I could likely do it in 20 minutes or less).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: DJ Bebop, urkel3000, bigtone23 and 1 other person
#17
Finish condition? Scratches, dents? Electronic functionality? Truss rod functionality? All yes. Setup? Maybe. Different conditions lead to the need for adjustments so I think it's to be expected it may need a setup.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcnach
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back